Peel and 6 Music?
Stuart Mchugh
stuart@...
Sat Mar 6 13:33:28 CET 2010
I'm lucky enough to not have to listen to new music on the radio as I
get sent more than enough, but it's clear that 6Music is *supposed*
to be the alternative choice on UK radio. Plus, while the evening
shows (as mentioned by Ken et al - Freakzone, Lard etc) are pretty
groundbreaking, I'd quite like something a wee bit more 'edgy' during
the day, when I'm in the kitchen etc.
So I put on 6Music this morning. Turned it off shortly afterwards
though. Andrew Collins is probably a typical presenter, music fan/
journo/semi-celebrity off the telly. The biggest problem is, for a
station with 'Music' in its name, the amount of chat. 20 minutes, 3
songs. Entertaining enough blather, yes, but I can get that on Radio
2 (and in fact, I accidentally turned on Jonathan Ross, and it was
the same format, Ross with a sidekick, wittering on, even down to the
speech defect).
Music played: Mumford and Sons, The Sweet, and Lloyd Cole. Playing
when I got back from the shops: The Barenaked Ladies.
I should point out that this was 6Music's musical choice. not R2!
I blogged about this already - http://stuartmchugh.com/6musics-
inevitable-demise. (I've realised that while I mention Peel's name
twice there, I've managed to avoid suggesting what he might have made
of it!)
Since then the 'consultation has started - https://
consultations.external.bbc.co.uk/departments/bbc/bbc-strategy-review/
consultation/consult_view
I've made the point a few times - they state that the plan is to
accommodate the "pop music" that 6Music plays onto Radios 1 and 2.
The Beeb's lack of understanding of what 'pop' actually is means that
6Music was just about strangled at birth.
No harm in trying to save it though.
S
On 6 Mar 2010, at 10:02, peel@yahoogroups.com wrote:
> There are 7 messages in this issue.
>
> Topics in this digest:
>
> 1a. Re: Peel and 6 Music?
> From: ken_garner
> 1b. Re: Peel and 6 Music?
> From: Eddie Duffy
> 1c. Re: Peel and 6 Music?
> From: RobF
> 1d. Re: Peel and 6 Music?
> From: bty455834
> 1e. Re: Peel and 6 Music?
> From: RobF
> 1f. Re: Peel and 6 Music?
> From: Humphrey
> 1g. Re: Peel and 6 Music?
> From: Jan Buxton
>
>
> Messages
> ______________________________________________________________________
> __
> 1a. Re: Peel and 6 Music?
> Posted by: "ken_garner" ken_garner@... ken_garner
> Date: Fri Mar 5, 2010 4:10 am ((PST))
>
>
>
> Thanks, Jan and Colin, your thinking is precisely the motivation
> for my question. I would be far happier if there were actual
> evidence one could cite of his position.
>
> My own feeling for what it's worth, is that John would probably
> express disappointment but not in such terms as to endanger his
> relationship with his employers, and express a hope that reasonable
> consultation might find a solution.
>
> I also dispute some of the claims going around casually that 6
> Music somehow "REPRESENTS" his approach. Some of the programmes do,
> but not all. Very few are as wide ranging as his. How often does
> any daytime show on 6 Music play reggae, rap, happy hardcore,
> forgotten pop & R&B hits from the 50s, even a 78?
>
> I can understand people using this as a stick implicitly to beat up
> Radio 1's increasing failure to live up to Peel's legacy, but that
> does not necessarily mean it's factually accurate.
>
> In fact, I seem to recall when 6 Music launched I gave it a right
> kicking in the sunday express because the line up, the format, the
> address, was exactly Radio 1 evening show 1988: nice middle class
> white boys and girls playing not quite good enough indie.
>
> More trickily for those of us who genuinely would like 6 Music to
> continue, whatever our criticisms, I suspect he and Walters,
> admittedly coming from a different broadcast environment age and
> context, might argue, as they often did, is that actually what
> matters is securing a guaranteed place for their approach within
> the mainstream main channel(s), ie Radio 1 and 2.
>
> This is sort of what the BBC paper argues, that some of 6's best
> shows could be found homes on 1 and 2.
>
> But when Mark Reilly, the Freakzone and Craig Charles' R and B show
> (arguably 3 of 6 Music's strongest items) are given fixed slots on
> radios 1 or 2, well, I'll believe it when it happens, frankly
>
> ken
>
> --- In peel@yahoogroups.com, Jan Buxton <janbuxton@...> wrote:
>>
>> Its OK Colin, I'm a massive supporter of 6Music but I'm also
>> uncomfortable
>> with the use of Peel references. John Peel was 2 hours of records not
>> usually played elsewhere, mostly new, and he had his own likes and
>> dislikes,
>> human imperfections etc. 6Music is in many ways more ambitious in
>> scope, in
>> actually attempting to have a 24/7 station that just plays good
>> music.
>> Within that new music, old music that doesn't get played anymore,
>> and some
>> that does, weird music, genre music, straightahead music. From
>> giving even
>> massive bands like Radiohead (btw I will never forgive JP for
>> being unmoved
>> by there Glasto 97 performance) play next time they release a
>> record (I
>> question how much interest R1 and R2 will have), to the newbies
>> like Ellie
>> Goulding etc. From Daytime to the Freak Zone. And 6Music isn't
>> perfect but
>> its a radio station I can switch on and listen to all day without
>> turning
>> off. But it isn't John Peel, I probably couldn't listen to him all
>> day after
>> all.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Jan
>> http://janb1982.blogspot.com/
>> http://rateyourmusic.com/~janb
>> http://twitter.com/janlbuxton
>>
>>
>> On 5 March 2010 07:41, colin bray <colinbray@...> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I don't know the answer, Ken, but without wishing to get into an
>>> argument
>>> with those who think the ending of 6 Music is an 'affront to the
>>> memory of
>>> Peel' I always worry about a deceased person being cited ie 'it's
>>> what he
>>> would have wanted.'
>>>
>>> It feels like the name of Peel is being played to give legitimacy
>>> to an
>>> argument and I don't think he would have liked that*. 6 Music may
>>> indeed be
>>> an excellent station but it doesn't seek to replicate Peel's
>>> philosophy. In
>>> my opinion the nearest we have to Peel's show is Dandelion and
>>> even that is
>>> obviously very different to what he was doing.
>>>
>>> As I say, not picking a fight with anybody and not seeking to
>>> appropriate
>>> Ken's question but this has been nagging at me for a few days and
>>> I needed
>>> to say something.
>>>
>>> Cheers.
>>>
>>> Colin.
>>>
>>> * I know, I know, this is akin to using his name to give
>>> legitimacy to my
>>> argument
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>> To: peel@yahoogroups.com
>>> From: ken_garner@...
>>> Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 13:56:21 +0000
>>> Subject: [peel] Peel and 6 Music?
>>>
>>>
>>> A number of people have been citing Peel as part of the protest
>>> over 6
>>> Music's (possible) fate. I wonder if anyone here can tell us if
>>> he ever made
>>> any comment on air about it, in the last 2 years of his
>>> programme, or its
>>> shows and presenters, positive or otherwise? Might be useful to
>>> have actual
>>> evidence. Just a thought. It is just possible he mentioned it in
>>> one of his
>>> last Radio Times columns, which I think ended sometime in 2002,
>>> but my
>>> collection of these is incomplete and hopelessly out of sequence...
>>> - ken
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>> Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free.
>>> Sign up
>>> now. <http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469229/direct/01/>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Messages in this topic (10)
> ______________________________________________________________________
> __
> 1b. Re: Peel and 6 Music?
> Posted by: "Eddie Duffy" eddie.duffy@... duff_eddie
> Date: Fri Mar 5, 2010 5:28 am ((PST))
>
> I like a lot of 6music's output, and I'm annoyed it's closing,
> especially given that the reasons given for its closure are so
> contradictory and illogical. But the invocation of Peel's name in the
> BBC Have Your Say threads did get a bit much. Myself, I reckon Peel's
> attitude would have been similar to his comments about certain
> records:
> "more of a Mark Goodier band, that", or "one for Janice, I think".
>
> Eddie.
>
> On 05/03/10 11:57, ken_garner wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks, Jan and Colin, your thinking is precisely the motivation for
>> my question. I would be far happier if there were actual evidence one
>> could cite of his position.
>>
>> My own feeling for what it's worth, is that John would probably
>> express disappointment but not in such terms as to endanger his
>> relationship with his employers, and express a hope that reasonable
>> consultation might find a solution.
>>
>> I also dispute some of the claims going around casually that 6 Music
>> somehow "REPRESENTS" his approach. Some of the programmes do, but not
>> all. Very few are as wide ranging as his. How often does any daytime
>> show on 6 Music play reggae, rap, happy hardcore, forgotten pop & R&B
>> hits from the 50s, even a 78?
>>
>> I can understand people using this as a stick implicitly to beat up
>> Radio 1's increasing failure to live up to Peel's legacy, but that
>> does not necessarily mean it's factually accurate.
>>
>> In fact, I seem to recall when 6 Music launched I gave it a right
>> kicking in the sunday express because the line up, the format, the
>> address, was exactly Radio 1 evening show 1988: nice middle class
>> white boys and girls playing not quite good enough indie.
>>
>> More trickily for those of us who genuinely would like 6 Music to
>> continue, whatever our criticisms, I suspect he and Walters,
>> admittedly coming from a different broadcast environment age and
>> context, might argue, as they often did, is that actually what
>> matters
>> is securing a guaranteed place for their approach within the
>> mainstream main channel(s), ie Radio 1 and 2.
>>
>> This is sort of what the BBC paper argues, that some of 6's best
>> shows
>> could be found homes on 1 and 2.
>>
>> But when Mark Reilly, the Freakzone and Craig Charles' R and B show
>> (arguably 3 of 6 Music's strongest items) are given fixed slots on
>> radios 1 or 2, well, I'll believe it when it happens, frankly
>>
>> ken
>>
>> --- In peel@yahoogroups.com <mailto:peel%40yahoogroups.com>, Jan
>> Buxton <janbuxton@...> wrote:
>>>
>>> Its OK Colin, I'm a massive supporter of 6Music but I'm also
>> uncomfortable
>>> with the use of Peel references. John Peel was 2 hours of records
>>> not
>>> usually played elsewhere, mostly new, and he had his own likes and
>> dislikes,
>>> human imperfections etc. 6Music is in many ways more ambitious in
>> scope, in
>>> actually attempting to have a 24/7 station that just plays good
>>> music.
>>> Within that new music, old music that doesn't get played anymore,
>> and some
>>> that does, weird music, genre music, straightahead music. From
>> giving even
>>> massive bands like Radiohead (btw I will never forgive JP for being
>> unmoved
>>> by there Glasto 97 performance) play next time they release a
>>> record (I
>>> question how much interest R1 and R2 will have), to the newbies like
>> Ellie
>>> Goulding etc. From Daytime to the Freak Zone. And 6Music isn't
>> perfect but
>>> its a radio station I can switch on and listen to all day without
>> turning
>>> off. But it isn't John Peel, I probably couldn't listen to him all
>> day after
>>> all.
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Jan
>>> http://janb1982.blogspot.com/ <http://janb1982.blogspot.com/>
>>> http://rateyourmusic.com/~janb <http://rateyourmusic.com/%7Ejanb>
>>> http://twitter.com/janlbuxton <http://twitter.com/janlbuxton>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 5 March 2010 07:41, colin bray <colinbray@...> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I don't know the answer, Ken, but without wishing to get into an
>> argument
>>>> with those who think the ending of 6 Music is an 'affront to the
>> memory of
>>>> Peel' I always worry about a deceased person being cited ie 'it's
>> what he
>>>> would have wanted.'
>>>>
>>>> It feels like the name of Peel is being played to give legitimacy
>> to an
>>>> argument and I don't think he would have liked that*. 6 Music may
>> indeed be
>>>> an excellent station but it doesn't seek to replicate Peel's
>> philosophy. In
>>>> my opinion the nearest we have to Peel's show is Dandelion and
>> even that is
>>>> obviously very different to what he was doing.
>>>>
>>>> As I say, not picking a fight with anybody and not seeking to
>> appropriate
>>>> Ken's question but this has been nagging at me for a few days and
>> I needed
>>>> to say something.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers.
>>>>
>>>> Colin.
>>>>
>>>> * I know, I know, this is akin to using his name to give
>> legitimacy to my
>>>> argument
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>> To: peel@yahoogroups.com <mailto:peel%40yahoogroups.com>
>>>> From: ken_garner@...
>>>> Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 13:56:21 +0000
>>>> Subject: [peel] Peel and 6 Music?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> A number of people have been citing Peel as part of the protest
>>>> over 6
>>>> Music's (possible) fate. I wonder if anyone here can tell us if he
>> ever made
>>>> any comment on air about it, in the last 2 years of his programme,
>> or its
>>>> shows and presenters, positive or otherwise? Might be useful to
>> have actual
>>>> evidence. Just a thought. It is just possible he mentioned it in
>> one of his
>>>> last Radio Times columns, which I think ended sometime in 2002,
>>>> but my
>>>> collection of these is incomplete and hopelessly out of sequence...
>>>> - ken
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>> Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free.
>>>> Sign up
>>>> now. <http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469229/direct/01/
>> <http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469229/direct/01/>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
> Messages in this topic (10)
> ______________________________________________________________________
> __
> 1c. Re: Peel and 6 Music?
> Posted by: "RobF" robfleay@... robfleay70
> Date: Fri Mar 5, 2010 6:57 am ((PST))
>
> I do find myself confounded by some of the online hand-wringing
> I've seen
> over this (and yes the constant invocation of Peel's ghost is also
> annoying)
>
> Prior to the closure announcement you could ask anyone in a band
> and I'm
> sure they'd tell you that a 6music play or a 6music session held
> nowhere
> near the kudos of a play/session on Radio 1 (The PRS payments back
> this up
> too!) because at the end of the day you knew you were on a DAB-only
> station
> with a limited audience. On top of that you stood even less chance of
> standing out amongst the droves of indie hopefuls who filled the
> 6music 24x7
> program.
>
> Now the majority voice seems to be suggesting the closure is some
> sort of
> strangulation of the life blood of the independent music sector,
> but if the
> worst that happens is that we have to suffer a few less mediocre
> bands then
> I can live with that!
>
> The key thing is that the BBC do come good on their promise to
> shift the
> best of the 6music shows/DJ's to the main FM stations.
>
> On Fri, Mar 5, 2010 at 1:10 PM, Eddie Duffy <eddie.duffy@...>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> I like a lot of 6music's output, and I'm annoyed it's closing,
>> especially
>> given that the reasons given for its closure are so contradictory and
>> illogical. But the invocation of Peel's name in the BBC Have Your Say
>> threads did get a bit much. Myself, I reckon Peel's attitude would
>> have been
>> similar to his comments about certain records: "more of a Mark
>> Goodier band,
>> that", or "one for Janice, I think".
>>
>> Eddie.
>>
>>
>> On 05/03/10 11:57, ken_garner wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks, Jan and Colin, your thinking is precisely the motivation
>> for my
>> question. I would be far happier if there were actual evidence one
>> could
>> cite of his position.
>>
>> My own feeling for what it's worth, is that John would probably
>> express
>> disappointment but not in such terms as to endanger his
>> relationship with
>> his employers, and express a hope that reasonable consultation
>> might find a
>> solution.
>>
>> I also dispute some of the claims going around casually that 6 Music
>> somehow "REPRESENTS" his approach. Some of the programmes do, but
>> not all.
>> Very few are as wide ranging as his. How often does any daytime
>> show on 6
>> Music play reggae, rap, happy hardcore, forgotten pop & R&B hits
>> from the
>> 50s, even a 78?
>>
>> I can understand people using this as a stick implicitly to beat
>> up Radio
>> 1's increasing failure to live up to Peel's legacy, but that does not
>> necessarily mean it's factually accurate.
>>
>> In fact, I seem to recall when 6 Music launched I gave it a right
>> kicking
>> in the sunday express because the line up, the format, the
>> address, was
>> exactly Radio 1 evening show 1988: nice middle class white boys
>> and girls
>> playing not quite good enough indie.
>>
>> More trickily for those of us who genuinely would like 6 Music to
>> continue,
>> whatever our criticisms, I suspect he and Walters, admittedly
>> coming from a
>> different broadcast environment age and context, might argue, as
>> they often
>> did, is that actually what matters is securing a guaranteed place
>> for their
>> approach within the mainstream main channel(s), ie Radio 1 and 2.
>>
>> This is sort of what the BBC paper argues, that some of 6's best
>> shows
>> could be found homes on 1 and 2.
>>
>> But when Mark Reilly, the Freakzone and Craig Charles' R and B show
>> (arguably 3 of 6 Music's strongest items) are given fixed slots on
>> radios 1
>> or 2, well, I'll believe it when it happens, frankly
>>
>> ken
>>
>> --- In peel@yahoogroups.com <peel%40yahoogroups.com>, Jan Buxton
>> <janbuxton@...> wrote:
>>>
>>> Its OK Colin, I'm a massive supporter of 6Music but I'm also
>> uncomfortable
>>> with the use of Peel references. John Peel was 2 hours of records
>>> not
>>> usually played elsewhere, mostly new, and he had his own likes and
>> dislikes,
>>> human imperfections etc. 6Music is in many ways more ambitious in
>>> scope,
>> in
>>> actually attempting to have a 24/7 station that just plays good
>>> music.
>>> Within that new music, old music that doesn't get played anymore,
>>> and
>> some
>>> that does, weird music, genre music, straightahead music. From
>>> giving
>> even
>>> massive bands like Radiohead (btw I will never forgive JP for being
>> unmoved
>>> by there Glasto 97 performance) play next time they release a
>>> record (I
>>> question how much interest R1 and R2 will have), to the newbies like
>> Ellie
>>> Goulding etc. From Daytime to the Freak Zone. And 6Music isn't
>>> perfect
>> but
>>> its a radio station I can switch on and listen to all day without
>>> turning
>>> off. But it isn't John Peel, I probably couldn't listen to him
>>> all day
>> after
>>> all.
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Jan
>>> http://janb1982.blogspot.com/
>>> http://rateyourmusic.com/~janb <http://rateyourmusic.com/%7Ejanb>
>>> http://twitter.com/janlbuxton
>>>
>>>
>>> On 5 March 2010 07:41, colin bray <colinbray@...> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I don't know the answer, Ken, but without wishing to get into an
>> argument
>>>> with those who think the ending of 6 Music is an 'affront to the
>>>> memory
>> of
>>>> Peel' I always worry about a deceased person being cited ie
>>>> 'it's what
>> he
>>>> would have wanted.'
>>>>
>>>> It feels like the name of Peel is being played to give
>>>> legitimacy to an
>>>> argument and I don't think he would have liked that*. 6 Music may
>> indeed be
>>>> an excellent station but it doesn't seek to replicate Peel's
>> philosophy. In
>>>> my opinion the nearest we have to Peel's show is Dandelion and even
>> that is
>>>> obviously very different to what he was doing.
>>>>
>>>> As I say, not picking a fight with anybody and not seeking to
>> appropriate
>>>> Ken's question but this has been nagging at me for a few days and I
>> needed
>>>> to say something.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers.
>>>>
>>>> Colin.
>>>>
>>>> * I know, I know, this is akin to using his name to give
>>>> legitimacy to
>> my
>>>> argument
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>> To: peel@yahoogroups.com <peel%40yahoogroups.com>
>>>> From: ken_garner@...
>>>> Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 13:56:21 +0000
>>>> Subject: [peel] Peel and 6 Music?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> A number of people have been citing Peel as part of the protest
>>>> over 6
>>>> Music's (possible) fate. I wonder if anyone here can tell us if
>>>> he ever
>> made
>>>> any comment on air about it, in the last 2 years of his
>>>> programme, or
>> its
>>>> shows and presenters, positive or otherwise? Might be useful to
>>>> have
>> actual
>>>> evidence. Just a thought. It is just possible he mentioned it in
>>>> one of
>> his
>>>> last Radio Times columns, which I think ended sometime in 2002,
>>>> but my
>>>> collection of these is incomplete and hopelessly out of sequence...
>>>> - ken
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>> Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free.
>>>> Sign up
>>>> now. <http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469229/direct/01/>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> Messages in this topic (10)
> ______________________________________________________________________
> __
> 1d. Re: Peel and 6 Music?
> Posted by: "bty455834" k.j.beech@... bty455834
> Date: Fri Mar 5, 2010 7:35 am ((PST))
>
> I see your point , but just like peel's show they will be put on at
> some middle of the night spot- under the term specialest music.
>
> i think the refrance to peel come from their commitment to new
> music ,free plays and eclectic tastes (who else is playing can at 2
> oclock in the afternoon)
>
> i have no problem easing listeners in with a daytime selection...
> as peel once said "just get the tunes out"
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In peel@yahoogroups.com, RobF <robfleay@...> wrote:
>>
>> I do find myself confounded by some of the online hand-wringing
>> I've seen
>> over this (and yes the constant invocation of Peel's ghost is also
>> annoying)
>>
>> Prior to the closure announcement you could ask anyone in a band
>> and I'm
>> sure they'd tell you that a 6music play or a 6music session held
>> nowhere
>> near the kudos of a play/session on Radio 1 (The PRS payments back
>> this up
>> too!) because at the end of the day you knew you were on a DAB-
>> only station
>> with a limited audience. On top of that you stood even less chance of
>> standing out amongst the droves of indie hopefuls who filled the
>> 6music 24x7
>> program.
>>
>> Now the majority voice seems to be suggesting the closure is some
>> sort of
>> strangulation of the life blood of the independent music sector,
>> but if the
>> worst that happens is that we have to suffer a few less mediocre
>> bands then
>> I can live with that!
>>
>> The key thing is that the BBC do come good on their promise to
>> shift the
>> best of the 6music shows/DJ's to the main FM stations.
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 5, 2010 at 1:10 PM, Eddie Duffy <eddie.duffy@...> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I like a lot of 6music's output, and I'm annoyed it's closing,
>>> especially
>>> given that the reasons given for its closure are so contradictory
>>> and
>>> illogical. But the invocation of Peel's name in the BBC Have Your
>>> Say
>>> threads did get a bit much. Myself, I reckon Peel's attitude
>>> would have been
>>> similar to his comments about certain records: "more of a Mark
>>> Goodier band,
>>> that", or "one for Janice, I think".
>>>
>>> Eddie.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 05/03/10 11:57, ken_garner wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks, Jan and Colin, your thinking is precisely the motivation
>>> for my
>>> question. I would be far happier if there were actual evidence
>>> one could
>>> cite of his position.
>>>
>>> My own feeling for what it's worth, is that John would probably
>>> express
>>> disappointment but not in such terms as to endanger his
>>> relationship with
>>> his employers, and express a hope that reasonable consultation
>>> might find a
>>> solution.
>>>
>>> I also dispute some of the claims going around casually that 6 Music
>>> somehow "REPRESENTS" his approach. Some of the programmes do, but
>>> not all.
>>> Very few are as wide ranging as his. How often does any daytime
>>> show on 6
>>> Music play reggae, rap, happy hardcore, forgotten pop & R&B hits
>>> from the
>>> 50s, even a 78?
>>>
>>> I can understand people using this as a stick implicitly to beat
>>> up Radio
>>> 1's increasing failure to live up to Peel's legacy, but that does
>>> not
>>> necessarily mean it's factually accurate.
>>>
>>> In fact, I seem to recall when 6 Music launched I gave it a right
>>> kicking
>>> in the sunday express because the line up, the format, the
>>> address, was
>>> exactly Radio 1 evening show 1988: nice middle class white boys
>>> and girls
>>> playing not quite good enough indie.
>>>
>>> More trickily for those of us who genuinely would like 6 Music to
>>> continue,
>>> whatever our criticisms, I suspect he and Walters, admittedly
>>> coming from a
>>> different broadcast environment age and context, might argue, as
>>> they often
>>> did, is that actually what matters is securing a guaranteed place
>>> for their
>>> approach within the mainstream main channel(s), ie Radio 1 and 2.
>>>
>>> This is sort of what the BBC paper argues, that some of 6's best
>>> shows
>>> could be found homes on 1 and 2.
>>>
>>> But when Mark Reilly, the Freakzone and Craig Charles' R and B show
>>> (arguably 3 of 6 Music's strongest items) are given fixed slots
>>> on radios 1
>>> or 2, well, I'll believe it when it happens, frankly
>>>
>>> ken
>>>
>>> --- In peel@yahoogroups.com <peel%40yahoogroups.com>, Jan Buxton
>>> <janbuxton@> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Its OK Colin, I'm a massive supporter of 6Music but I'm also
>>> uncomfortable
>>>> with the use of Peel references. John Peel was 2 hours of
>>>> records not
>>>> usually played elsewhere, mostly new, and he had his own likes and
>>> dislikes,
>>>> human imperfections etc. 6Music is in many ways more ambitious
>>>> in scope,
>>> in
>>>> actually attempting to have a 24/7 station that just plays good
>>>> music.
>>>> Within that new music, old music that doesn't get played
>>>> anymore, and
>>> some
>>>> that does, weird music, genre music, straightahead music. From
>>>> giving
>>> even
>>>> massive bands like Radiohead (btw I will never forgive JP for being
>>> unmoved
>>>> by there Glasto 97 performance) play next time they release a
>>>> record (I
>>>> question how much interest R1 and R2 will have), to the newbies
>>>> like
>>> Ellie
>>>> Goulding etc. From Daytime to the Freak Zone. And 6Music isn't
>>>> perfect
>>> but
>>>> its a radio station I can switch on and listen to all day
>>>> without turning
>>>> off. But it isn't John Peel, I probably couldn't listen to him
>>>> all day
>>> after
>>>> all.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Jan
>>>> http://janb1982.blogspot.com/
>>>> http://rateyourmusic.com/~janb <http://rateyourmusic.com/%7Ejanb>
>>>> http://twitter.com/janlbuxton
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 5 March 2010 07:41, colin bray <colinbray@> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't know the answer, Ken, but without wishing to get into an
>>> argument
>>>>> with those who think the ending of 6 Music is an 'affront to
>>>>> the memory
>>> of
>>>>> Peel' I always worry about a deceased person being cited ie
>>>>> 'it's what
>>> he
>>>>> would have wanted.'
>>>>>
>>>>> It feels like the name of Peel is being played to give
>>>>> legitimacy to an
>>>>> argument and I don't think he would have liked that*. 6 Music may
>>> indeed be
>>>>> an excellent station but it doesn't seek to replicate Peel's
>>> philosophy. In
>>>>> my opinion the nearest we have to Peel's show is Dandelion and
>>>>> even
>>> that is
>>>>> obviously very different to what he was doing.
>>>>>
>>>>> As I say, not picking a fight with anybody and not seeking to
>>> appropriate
>>>>> Ken's question but this has been nagging at me for a few days
>>>>> and I
>>> needed
>>>>> to say something.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers.
>>>>>
>>>>> Colin.
>>>>>
>>>>> * I know, I know, this is akin to using his name to give
>>>>> legitimacy to
>>> my
>>>>> argument
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>> To: peel@yahoogroups.com <peel%40yahoogroups.com>
>>>>> From: ken_garner@
>>>>> Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 13:56:21 +0000
>>>>> Subject: [peel] Peel and 6 Music?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> A number of people have been citing Peel as part of the protest
>>>>> over 6
>>>>> Music's (possible) fate. I wonder if anyone here can tell us if
>>>>> he ever
>>> made
>>>>> any comment on air about it, in the last 2 years of his
>>>>> programme, or
>>> its
>>>>> shows and presenters, positive or otherwise? Might be useful to
>>>>> have
>>> actual
>>>>> evidence. Just a thought. It is just possible he mentioned it
>>>>> in one of
>>> his
>>>>> last Radio Times columns, which I think ended sometime in 2002,
>>>>> but my
>>>>> collection of these is incomplete and hopelessly out of
>>>>> sequence...
>>>>> - ken
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>> Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free.
>>>>> Sign up
>>>>> now. <http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469229/direct/01/>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Messages in this topic (10)
> ______________________________________________________________________
> __
> 1e. Re: Peel and 6 Music?
> Posted by: "RobF" robfleay@... robfleay70
> Date: Fri Mar 5, 2010 8:51 am ((PST))
>
> True enough, but these days with the iPlayer / Listen Again
> technology,
> being on in the middle of the night is not quite the graveyard
> shift it used
> to be
>
> With the pathetic DAB coverage round our way I only ever listened
> to 6Music
> on the iPlayer anyway (now I have an internet radio)
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 5, 2010 at 3:31 PM, bty455834 <k.j.beech@...>
> wrote:
>
>> I see your point , but just like peel's show they will be put on
>> at some
>> middle of the night spot- under the term specialest music.
>>
>> i think the refrance to peel come from their commitment to new
>> music ,free
>> plays and eclectic tastes (who else is playing can at 2 oclock in the
>> afternoon)
>>
>> i have no problem easing listeners in with a daytime selection...
>> as peel once said "just get the tunes out"
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --- In peel@yahoogroups.com, RobF <robfleay@...> wrote:
>>>
>>> I do find myself confounded by some of the online hand-wringing
>>> I've seen
>>> over this (and yes the constant invocation of Peel's ghost is also
>> annoying)
>>>
>>> Prior to the closure announcement you could ask anyone in a band
>>> and I'm
>>> sure they'd tell you that a 6music play or a 6music session held
>>> nowhere
>>> near the kudos of a play/session on Radio 1 (The PRS payments
>>> back this
>> up
>>> too!) because at the end of the day you knew you were on a DAB-only
>> station
>>> with a limited audience. On top of that you stood even less
>>> chance of
>>> standing out amongst the droves of indie hopefuls who filled the
>>> 6music
>> 24x7
>>> program.
>>>
>>> Now the majority voice seems to be suggesting the closure is some
>>> sort of
>>> strangulation of the life blood of the independent music sector,
>>> but if
>> the
>>> worst that happens is that we have to suffer a few less mediocre
>>> bands
>> then
>>> I can live with that!
>>>
>>> The key thing is that the BBC do come good on their promise to
>>> shift the
>>> best of the 6music shows/DJ's to the main FM stations.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Mar 5, 2010 at 1:10 PM, Eddie Duffy <eddie.duffy@...> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I like a lot of 6music's output, and I'm annoyed it's closing,
>> especially
>>>> given that the reasons given for its closure are so
>>>> contradictory and
>>>> illogical. But the invocation of Peel's name in the BBC Have
>>>> Your Say
>>>> threads did get a bit much. Myself, I reckon Peel's attitude
>>>> would have
>> been
>>>> similar to his comments about certain records: "more of a Mark
>>>> Goodier
>> band,
>>>> that", or "one for Janice, I think".
>>>>
>>>> Eddie.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 05/03/10 11:57, ken_garner wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks, Jan and Colin, your thinking is precisely the motivation
>>>> for my
>>>> question. I would be far happier if there were actual evidence one
>> could
>>>> cite of his position.
>>>>
>>>> My own feeling for what it's worth, is that John would probably
>>>> express
>>>> disappointment but not in such terms as to endanger his
>>>> relationship
>> with
>>>> his employers, and express a hope that reasonable consultation
>>>> might
>> find a
>>>> solution.
>>>>
>>>> I also dispute some of the claims going around casually that 6
>>>> Music
>>>> somehow "REPRESENTS" his approach. Some of the programmes do,
>>>> but not
>> all.
>>>> Very few are as wide ranging as his. How often does any daytime
>>>> show on
>> 6
>>>> Music play reggae, rap, happy hardcore, forgotten pop & R&B hits
>>>> from
>> the
>>>> 50s, even a 78?
>>>>
>>>> I can understand people using this as a stick implicitly to beat up
>> Radio
>>>> 1's increasing failure to live up to Peel's legacy, but that
>>>> does not
>>>> necessarily mean it's factually accurate.
>>>>
>>>> In fact, I seem to recall when 6 Music launched I gave it a right
>> kicking
>>>> in the sunday express because the line up, the format, the
>>>> address, was
>>>> exactly Radio 1 evening show 1988: nice middle class white boys and
>> girls
>>>> playing not quite good enough indie.
>>>>
>>>> More trickily for those of us who genuinely would like 6 Music to
>> continue,
>>>> whatever our criticisms, I suspect he and Walters, admittedly
>>>> coming
>> from a
>>>> different broadcast environment age and context, might argue, as
>>>> they
>> often
>>>> did, is that actually what matters is securing a guaranteed
>>>> place for
>> their
>>>> approach within the mainstream main channel(s), ie Radio 1 and 2.
>>>>
>>>> This is sort of what the BBC paper argues, that some of 6's best
>>>> shows
>>>> could be found homes on 1 and 2.
>>>>
>>>> But when Mark Reilly, the Freakzone and Craig Charles' R and B show
>>>> (arguably 3 of 6 Music's strongest items) are given fixed slots on
>> radios 1
>>>> or 2, well, I'll believe it when it happens, frankly
>>>>
>>>> ken
>>>>
>>>> --- In peel@yahoogroups.com <peel%40yahoogroups.com>, Jan Buxton
>>>> <janbuxton@> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Its OK Colin, I'm a massive supporter of 6Music but I'm also
>>>> uncomfortable
>>>>> with the use of Peel references. John Peel was 2 hours of
>>>>> records not
>>>>> usually played elsewhere, mostly new, and he had his own likes and
>>>> dislikes,
>>>>> human imperfections etc. 6Music is in many ways more ambitious in
>> scope,
>>>> in
>>>>> actually attempting to have a 24/7 station that just plays good
>> music.
>>>>> Within that new music, old music that doesn't get played
>>>>> anymore, and
>>>> some
>>>>> that does, weird music, genre music, straightahead music. From
>>>>> giving
>>>> even
>>>>> massive bands like Radiohead (btw I will never forgive JP for
>>>>> being
>>>> unmoved
>>>>> by there Glasto 97 performance) play next time they release a
>>>>> record
>> (I
>>>>> question how much interest R1 and R2 will have), to the newbies
>>>>> like
>>>> Ellie
>>>>> Goulding etc. From Daytime to the Freak Zone. And 6Music isn't
>> perfect
>>>> but
>>>>> its a radio station I can switch on and listen to all day without
>> turning
>>>>> off. But it isn't John Peel, I probably couldn't listen to him all
>> day
>>>> after
>>>>> all.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Jan
>>>>> http://janb1982.blogspot.com/
>>>>> http://rateyourmusic.com/~janb <http://rateyourmusic.com/%
>>>>> 7Ejanb> <
>> http://rateyourmusic.com/%7Ejanb>
>>>>> http://twitter.com/janlbuxton
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 5 March 2010 07:41, colin bray <colinbray@> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't know the answer, Ken, but without wishing to get into an
>>>> argument
>>>>>> with those who think the ending of 6 Music is an 'affront to the
>> memory
>>>> of
>>>>>> Peel' I always worry about a deceased person being cited ie 'it's
>> what
>>>> he
>>>>>> would have wanted.'
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It feels like the name of Peel is being played to give legitimacy
>> to an
>>>>>> argument and I don't think he would have liked that*. 6 Music may
>>>> indeed be
>>>>>> an excellent station but it doesn't seek to replicate Peel's
>>>> philosophy. In
>>>>>> my opinion the nearest we have to Peel's show is Dandelion and
>>>>>> even
>>>> that is
>>>>>> obviously very different to what he was doing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As I say, not picking a fight with anybody and not seeking to
>>>> appropriate
>>>>>> Ken's question but this has been nagging at me for a few days
>>>>>> and I
>>>> needed
>>>>>> to say something.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Colin.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> * I know, I know, this is akin to using his name to give
>>>>>> legitimacy
>> to
>>>> my
>>>>>> argument
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>> To: peel@yahoogroups.com <peel%40yahoogroups.com>
>>>>>> From: ken_garner@
>>>>>> Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 13:56:21 +0000
>>>>>> Subject: [peel] Peel and 6 Music?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A number of people have been citing Peel as part of the protest
>> over 6
>>>>>> Music's (possible) fate. I wonder if anyone here can tell us
>>>>>> if he
>> ever
>>>> made
>>>>>> any comment on air about it, in the last 2 years of his
>>>>>> programme,
>> or
>>>> its
>>>>>> shows and presenters, positive or otherwise? Might be useful to
>> have
>>>> actual
>>>>>> evidence. Just a thought. It is just possible he mentioned it in
>> one of
>>>> his
>>>>>> last Radio Times columns, which I think ended sometime in
>>>>>> 2002, but
>> my
>>>>>> collection of these is incomplete and hopelessly out of
>>>>>> sequence...
>>>>>> - ken
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>> Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free.
>>>>>> Sign
>> up
>>>>>> now. <http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469229/direct/01/>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------
>>
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> Messages in this topic (10)
> ______________________________________________________________________
> __
> 1f. Re: Peel and 6 Music?
> Posted by: "Humphrey" thebarguest@... thebarguest
> Date: Fri Mar 5, 2010 10:54 am ((PST))
>
>
>
> Sorry, but I think JP was very wise not liking Radiohead and Oasis,
> two bands that would not have been at all famous in 1980 ! Nothing
> personal, maybe it's an age thing .... The best band of the past
> few years was Magazine (reformed) ! When I were a lad .....
>
> Regrads,
> Col Blimp
>
>
> --- In peel@yahoogroups.com, Jan Buxton <janbuxton@...> wrote:
>>
>> Its OK Colin, I'm a massive supporter of 6Music but I'm also
>> uncomfortable
>> with the use of Peel references. John Peel was 2 hours of records not
>> usually played elsewhere, mostly new, and he had his own likes and
>> dislikes,
>> human imperfections etc. 6Music is in many ways more ambitious in
>> scope, in
>> actually attempting to have a 24/7 station that just plays good
>> music.
>> Within that new music, old music that doesn't get played anymore,
>> and some
>> that does, weird music, genre music, straightahead music. From
>> giving even
>> massive bands like Radiohead (btw I will never forgive JP for
>> being unmoved
>> by there Glasto 97 performance) play next time they release a
>> record (I
>> question how much interest R1 and R2 will have), to the newbies
>> like Ellie
>> Goulding etc. From Daytime to the Freak Zone. And 6Music isn't
>> perfect but
>> its a radio station I can switch on and listen to all day without
>> turning
>> off. But it isn't John Peel, I probably couldn't listen to him all
>> day after
>> all.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Jan
>> http://janb1982.blogspot.com/
>> http://rateyourmusic.com/~janb
>> http://twitter.com/janlbuxton
>>
>>
>> On 5 March 2010 07:41, colin bray <colinbray@...> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I don't know the answer, Ken, but without wishing to get into an
>>> argument
>>> with those who think the ending of 6 Music is an 'affront to the
>>> memory of
>>> Peel' I always worry about a deceased person being cited ie 'it's
>>> what he
>>> would have wanted.'
>>>
>>> It feels like the name of Peel is being played to give legitimacy
>>> to an
>>> argument and I don't think he would have liked that*. 6 Music may
>>> indeed be
>>> an excellent station but it doesn't seek to replicate Peel's
>>> philosophy. In
>>> my opinion the nearest we have to Peel's show is Dandelion and
>>> even that is
>>> obviously very different to what he was doing.
>>>
>>> As I say, not picking a fight with anybody and not seeking to
>>> appropriate
>>> Ken's question but this has been nagging at me for a few days and
>>> I needed
>>> to say something.
>>>
>>> Cheers.
>>>
>>> Colin.
>>>
>>> * I know, I know, this is akin to using his name to give
>>> legitimacy to my
>>> argument
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>> To: peel@yahoogroups.com
>>> From: ken_garner@...
>>> Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 13:56:21 +0000
>>> Subject: [peel] Peel and 6 Music?
>>>
>>>
>>> A number of people have been citing Peel as part of the protest
>>> over 6
>>> Music's (possible) fate. I wonder if anyone here can tell us if
>>> he ever made
>>> any comment on air about it, in the last 2 years of his
>>> programme, or its
>>> shows and presenters, positive or otherwise? Might be useful to
>>> have actual
>>> evidence. Just a thought. It is just possible he mentioned it in
>>> one of his
>>> last Radio Times columns, which I think ended sometime in 2002,
>>> but my
>>> collection of these is incomplete and hopelessly out of sequence...
>>> - ken
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>> Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free.
>>> Sign up
>>> now. <http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469229/direct/01/>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Messages in this topic (10)
> ______________________________________________________________________
> __
> 1g. Re: Peel and 6 Music?
> Posted by: "Jan Buxton" janbuxton@... sidings
> Date: Fri Mar 5, 2010 11:14 am ((PST))
>
> On 5 March 2010 18:39, Humphrey <thebarguest@...> wrote:
>> Sorry, but I think JP was very wise not liking Radiohead and
>> Oasis, two bands that would not have been at all famous in 1980 !
>> >Nothing personal, maybe it's an age thing .... The best band of
>> the past few years was Magazine (reformed) ! When I were a lad .....
>
> Again nothing personal but Radiohead are indisputably on a shortlist
> for the greatest band of all time (to group them with Oasis is deeply
> unfair and inaccurate). But anyway, this gives me an excuse to post Ed
> from the bands thoughts on 6Music,
>
> (he invokes JP as well but I think the rest of what he says is
> perfectly reasonable)
>
> To whom it may concern,
> I am writing regarding the news today that 6 Music is going to be
> closed, in the hope that you reconsider this decision. To be honest I,
> along with a vast number of other musicians, music industry types and
> real music fans, are completely shocked and baffled by this news. I
> wonder if those who made this decision are actually aware of the
> hugely important role that 6 music plays in fostering and promoting
> new bands, as well as still playing the likes of the band that I am
> in. It literally is the radio lifeblood for music outside of the
> mainstream. Not to denigrate Radio's 1 and 2, but it really is the
> only station that puts music first, and that's from a punters point of
> view and not some bloke in a band. Nowhere else can you hear an
> archived session track from T Rex juxtaposed next to Midlake's latest
> release. As David Bowie, put it ... it keeps the spirit of John Peel
> alive.
> Please realise the impact and severity of closing this station down.
> It will be a huge blow for new bands and their labels. It's not enough
> to 'refocus' Radio's 1 and 2 as 6 music does a very specific thing.
> What you have with 6 Music is a gem of a radio station, it is doing
> what no other station in the world does or can possibly do. Remember
> it is also still relatively young, give it time. You also finally have
> a fantastic and seemingly settled line up of DJ's. Please get behind
> it and from what I can gather about it's annual budget of £6m, it
> surely punches way above it's weight in terms of cultural relevance
> and importance.
> Thank you for considering this.
> Ed O'Brien (Radiohead)
>
>
> Private Eye Number Crunching
> £7m - Total content spend last year on BBC 6 Music, which Mark
> Thompson plans to axe
> £21m - Total salary bill of "top 100 executives" at BBC, which Mark
> Thompson justifies because "we need the very best people in the world"
> £172m - Total overspend on building projects by BBC which Mark
> Thompson cannot justify at all
>
> --
> Jan
> http://janb1982.blogspot.com/
> http://rateyourmusic.com/~janb
> http://twitter.com/janlbuxton
>
>
>
>
>
> Messages in this topic (10)
>
>
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
>
Stuart Mchugh
po box 13516 linlithgow eh49 6wb ... t: 01506 840063 ... e:
editor@...
More information about the Peel
mailing list