[peel] Re: Reconstructionism

[markbursa@...]

>>Wow, a response !! Thanks !

Lots of the old "prog" bands  had some of their biggest successes
during and after 1977 eg Yes, Tull,  Genesis, ELP, Barclay James H.
Pink Floyd etc.<<
 
Genesis  became a pop band. Pink Floyd managed to bring a certain amount of 
the  Zeitgeist into the excess with The Wall. It's certainly not about elves 
and  pixies, is it. Yes had success through Trev Horn's AOR makeover. Pimp my 
Prog!  Wouldn't say Tull or BJH had any marked increas in success post-punk. 
More of  a steady slide into the margins. ELP were comprehensively killed off by 
punk.  And rightly so!!!
 
 
 
>> But, yeah, punk influenced those bands to trim  their
excesses and stop those awful 20 min drum solos !!  <<
 
 
Very few  of the proggers owned up to any punk influence. Most of them were  
scared/confused by it. Almost all of them hated the non-musicianship elements. 
 Result!
 
Very few proggers actually seemed to understand (post) punk at all.  Robert 
Fripp formed League of Gentlemen with Barry Andrews and Sara Lee. Bill  Nelson 
retooled his sound. Most others either chugged on to a dwindling  audience Iin 
the UK - less so in Europe) or gave up. 
 
 
 
>>So maybe they
were not prog any more ......... but they were  still called prog by
the media.<<


 
Careful with the terminology here. "Prog" (Capital P)  - as opposed to 
progressive rock (small p) is now defined by certain elements  : very flash 
musicianship, especially keyboards; insane time sequences like  25:12; classical/jazz 
flourishes; symphonic pretensions; whimsical  Tolkienesque lyrics delivered in 
a plummy English voice; theatrical nonsense  on stage; complete absence of 
any black influence, etc.
 
These were all Very Bad Things post-77, and it's these Prog elements that  
were wiped out.
 
Not all the bands that were lumped in to the Prog movement conformed to  
these stereotypes; certainly time has been kind to Pink Floyd in that respect  - 
serious lyrical content; non-virtuosos in the band; blues influence; much  more 
direct songwriting; songs built on texture/slabs of sound, not  baroque 
filigree etc. Van Der Graaf Generator likewise, to a lesser  extent. With added 
angst.
 
Remember too that punk reset the counter but it don't  take long for 
post-punk to start progressing (small P) - Wire, Magazine,  PiL's Metal Box etc...


>>You've got to remember, at the height of prog, glam  rock/pop (like
Slade) was the 'punk' of the day.<<





No, it was the mainstream commercial chart music. Prog  was the 
outsider/non-chart stuff in the early 70s. But there wasn't a "punk"  of the early '70s. 
The most "dangerous" stuff was probably the heavy rock of  Black Sabbath, or 
acid/stoner stuff like Hawkwind.
 
It is true that the 11-yr old Slade/T Rex/Bowie fans  became the 16-yr-old 
Pistols/Clash fans. I speak from a position of authority  on that one ;-)


>>Incidentally, you can't get more 'prog' than Van der  Graaf Generator
who were loved by Rotten, Mark E. Smith and no doubt other  punks.<<
 


Well, you can get more 'prog' than VdGG - in that VdGG  doesn't carry the 
same Prog genes as, say, Yes or ELP. It's not  really 
fantasy/whimsical/neo-classical based. Serious stuff, and on the  outer limits of prog (see also 
Can/Neu-style Krautrock)
 
And remember too that Lydon namechecks Hamill's solo  album 'Nadir's Big 
Chance', NOT VdGG on the Capital Radio Show. A very  different animal.
 
What really changed was the other stuff that Lydon,  MES and others were 
listening to (Lydon and MES had very similar tastes, by  all accounts).
 
Velvets, Stooges, Dub, Beefheart, Krautrock, P-Funk,  Disco etc became the 
core influences on post-punk. Not  classical/jazz/blues/folk.
 
 
Mark