From smchugh@... Tue Jun 1 16:59:30 1999 From: smchugh@... (Stuart McHugh) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 15:59:30 +0100 Subject: fav sessions Message-ID: <76369.68.282.959309995@...> >No, Lee and Herring are geniuses of our time, I was referring to their >"lazy comedy slags" section where they expose poor joke formulas such as >"...and they were just the teachers ah", "...I was 28 years old ah" and >the classic "...and then I got off the bus ah". Peel once mentioned them >in his column if that gives it any relevance... It must just be me, in fact IMO Peel's taste in comedy, with the exception of the Fast Show (oh, ok, and HMHB), always seems to be for stuff which doesn't quite hit the mark - Absolutely was really patchy (though occasionally touched by genius) and wasn't that Royston Vasey thing another Peel favourite? I've laughed at Lee and Herring in the past but I saw their show the other evening and thought it was lamentable, nary a titter. The new Hale and Pace, anyone? Though to be fair, they gave Gail Porter a much-deserved slagging. S From jmsmall@... Tue Jun 1 17:37:26 1999 From: jmsmall@... (Stig) Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 16:37:26 +0100 Subject: comedy slags Message-ID: <76369.68.283.959309995@...> Stuart McHugh wrote: > It must just be me, in fact IMO Peel's taste in comedy, with the exception > of the Fast Show (oh, ok, and HMHB), always seems to be for stuff which > doesn't quite hit the mark - Absolutely was really patchy (though > occasionally touched by genius) I didn't know he recommended Absolutely. Probably before my time, I am only 2 years old. He was a big fan of Brass Eye and Blue Jam of course, and was spot on there. > and wasn't that Royston Vasey thing another > Peel favourite? I don't think it was a "favourite", he wrote about it in his Radio Times column but I don't think he recommended it unreservedly. He was mostly impressed with the transexual taxi driver (and to be honest, the sexual ambiguity was slightly arousing). I thought League of Gentlemen was a bit crap myself and certainly didn't deserve all the hype it got. I couldn't see any flair or originality behind the stereotypes. > I've laughed at Lee and Herring in the past but I saw their show the other > evening and thought it was lamentable, nary a titter. The new Hale and > Pace, anyone? Though to be fair, they gave Gail Porter a much-deserved slagging. To be accurate, Lee and Herring were never a Peel "favourite" either, he mentioned their first ever show and there's been little since. I think, like with Harry Hill, you need to be there from the start to follow the "humour" (more surreal disruptions of formulaic expectation sprinkled with faux-naif scatology than 'jokes'). They are certainly among the cleverer of the comedians on our TV screens at the moment. Stiggiwinky -- jmsmall@... From kimhl@... Tue Jun 1 21:30:06 1999 From: kimhl@... (Kim Harrison-Lavoie) Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 19:30:06 +0000 Subject: fav sessions Message-ID: <76369.68.284.959309995@...> On Tue, 1 Jun 1999 15:59:30 +0100 Stuart McHugh wrote: > From: Stuart McHugh > > >No, Lee and Herring are geniuses of our time, I was > referring to their >"lazy comedy slags" section where they > expose poor joke formulas such as >"...and they were just > the teachers ah", "...I was 28 years old ah" and >the > classic "...and then I got off the bus ah". Peel once > mentioned them >in his column if that gives it any > relevance... It must just be me, in fact IMO Peel's taste > in comedy, with the exception of the Fast Show (oh, ok, and > HMHB), always seems to be for stuff which doesn't quite hit > the mark - Absolutely was really patchy (though > occasionally touched by genius) and wasn't that Royston > Vasey thing another Peel favourite? > I've laughed at Lee and Herring in the past but I saw their > show the other evening and thought it was lamentable, nary > a titter. The new Hale and Pace, anyone? > Though to be fair, they gave Gail Porter a much-deserved slagging. > > S > Stewart Lee writes album reviews for the Sunday Times. From xrayboy@... Wed Jun 2 17:44:23 1999 From: xrayboy@... (Max Bialystock) Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 11:44:23 -0400 Subject: Hey Stig! Message-ID: <76369.69.285.959309995@...> >From: Martin Wheatley > >Hey Stig > >Now Ken has joined there are now three Peel superstars on the list >(you, Tom and Ken) > How the hell did I get to superstar status? Puh-leeze! tom From Stephen_J._Wood@... Thu Jun 3 19:33:16 1999 From: Stephen_J._Wood@... (Stephen_J._Wood@...) Date: 03 Jun 1999 17:33:16 GMT Subject: re LoG Message-ID: <76369.70.286.959309995@...> Stig writes: I thought League of Gentlemen was a bit crap myself No! No! Funniest thing on TV since the (Peel-Hyped) Fast Show and The Royle Family! Watch it again, Stig boy! The whole series if possible! You can't possibly watch the Drinking Our Own Urine or the Incompetent Vet Explodes Tortoise sketches without cracking up. And Royston Vasey is Roy (Chubby) Brown's real name, allegedly. Is anyone else pissed off at how patchy the Peel Show info going onto the Peel/BBC website is? Seems like four or five show tracklists a month just don't appear, usually the Peel Acres and the outside broadcast shows. Cheers, Rocker, Still working on my Peel Lists! rocker@... From dan_jc@... Fri Jun 4 09:56:51 1999 From: dan_jc@... (Dan Chapman) Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 00:56:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: solex and patchy info. Message-ID: <76369.70.287.959309995@...> Morn all do any of you out there have a discography of solex as the live session yesterday was excellent and I do not know allot about them cheers in advance on that one. Regarding the peachiness of the tracklists on the peel web site I agree with master Wood it is most annoying coz usually a track you want information on is always on the list they miss out. So listers what can we do about it mass protests? Signed petitions I think so. Laters Dan _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com From rlawson@... Fri Jun 4 10:11:38 1999 From: rlawson@... (CR Lawson) Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 16:11:38 +0800 Subject: solex and patchy info. Message-ID: <76369.70.288.959309995@...> it is particularly annoying but there is an alternative to the BBC site as follows http://www.avistic.demon.co.uk/ however this is usually only updated a week later but is very useful as it has far more history than the BBC site. Rob Dan Chapman wrote: > From: Dan Chapman > > Morn all do any of you out there have a discography of solex as the > live session yesterday was excellent and I do not know allot about them > cheers in advance on that one. Regarding the peachiness of the > tracklists on the peel web site I agree with master Wood it is most > annoying coz usually a track you want information on is always on the > list they miss out. So listers what can we do about it mass protests? > Signed petitions I think so. > > Laters Dan > > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Give back to your community through "Grow to Give." > http://www.onelist.com > Deadline is June 19. See homepage for details. From steve@... Fri Jun 4 11:09:42 1999 From: steve@... (Steve Watts) Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 09:09:42 GMT Subject: Stereolab last night Message-ID: <76369.70.289.959309995@...> Anyone catch the live set on Peel last night? I must admit I've been growing a litle tired of the 'Lab as they've been getting a bit too 'easy listening' of late, but last night's set reassured me slightly. They played a few new ones which suggested a return to the krautrock sound of a few years ago, so hopefully the new LP will be a lot better than the appalling 'Dots and loops'. Aybody know when it's coming out? From dan_jc@... Fri Jun 4 10:20:45 1999 From: dan_jc@... (Dan Chapman) Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 01:20:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: spell check Message-ID: <76369.70.290.959309995@...> I refer to my recent Email I have just noticed a rather embarisiing spelling error please read peachiness as patchy-ness humble apologies must of clicked the wrong button on the ole spellchecker. Yours red faced-idly Dan. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com From Les_Miller@... Fri Jun 4 10:26:19 1999 From: Les_Miller@... (Les Miller) Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 09:26:19 +0100 Subject: re LoG Message-ID: <76369.70.291.959309995@...> Try this web site http://www.avistic.demon.co.uk - the person who runs it gets the info from the teletext pages. I have given up with the official web site as it does not give the album names that tracks are taken from and also doesn't have too much historical info. This web site, however, has all of the 1998 show listings. Stephen_J._Wood@... (Stephen J. Wood) on 03/06/99 18:33:16 Please respond to peel@onelist.com Sent by: Stephen_J._Wood@... (Stephen J. Wood) To: peel@onelist.com cc: peel@onelist.com (Les Miller/GB/3Com) Subject: [peel] re LoG From: Stephen_J._Wood@... (Stephen J. Wood) Stig writes: I thought League of Gentlemen was a bit crap myself No! No! Funniest thing on TV since the (Peel-Hyped) Fast Show and The Royle Family! Watch it again, Stig boy! The whole series if possible! You can't possibly watch the Drinking Our Own Urine or the Incompetent Vet Explodes Tortoise sketches without cracking up. And Royston Vasey is Roy (Chubby) Brown's real name, allegedly. Is anyone else pissed off at how patchy the Peel Show info going onto the Peel/BBC website is? Seems like four or five show tracklists a month just don't appear, usually the Peel Acres and the outside broadcast shows. Cheers, Rocker, Still working on my Peel Lists! rocker@... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ With more than 18 million e-mails exchanged daily... http://www.onelist.com ...ONElist is THE place where the world talks! From andys@... Fri Jun 4 12:20:51 1999 From: andys@... (Andy Smith) Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 11:20:51 +0100 (BST) Subject: Solex/Stereolab Message-ID: <76369.71.292.959309995@...> Dan asked: > Morn all do any of you out there have a discography of solex > as the live session yesterday was excellent Not complete but I know of: Solex vs. The Hitmeister (very good album on Matador OLE 287-2 - just happened to have it in my work CD bag) Solex all lickety spit (single - main track is on the album, two extra tracks that I don't remember much about) There may be other singles from the first LP, plus there was an excellent Peel session. New LP is due out this year and Peel has already played a single Randy Constanza (sp?). Steve Watts: > Anyone catch the live set on Peel last night? I must admit I've been > growing a litle tired of the 'Lab as they've been getting a bit too > 'easy listening' of late, but last night's set reassured me > slightly. They played a few new ones which suggested a return to the > krautrock sound of a few years ago, so hopefully the new LP will be > a lot better than the appalling 'Dots and loops'. I thought Dots was excellent, especially the tracks with the more drum'n'bassy percussion, although I do tire a little of some of the easy listening type stuff and I loved the early one-chord wonders. I think last week's Guardian Guide said there's an album due in August. And I loved the League Of Gentlemen. Unoriginal and slightly stereotypical characters, perhaps, but very well done and funnier than a lot of the Fast Show's humour by repetition. Andy From HB701540@... Fri Jun 4 12:27:00 1999 From: HB701540@... (HB701540) Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 11:27:00 +0100 Subject: re LoG Message-ID: <76369.71.293.959309995@...> i thought the Jobseekers bit in the jobcentre was the funniest thing i've seen since Trigger-Happy TV. james > ---------- > From: > Stephen_J._Wood@...[SMTP:Stephen_J._Wood@... > ] > Reply To: peel@onelist.com > Sent: Thursday, June 03, 1999 6:33 PM > To: peel@onelist.com > Cc: peel@onelist.com > Subject: [peel] re LoG > > From: Stephen_J._Wood@... (Stephen J. Wood) > > Stig writes: I thought League of Gentlemen was a bit crap myself > > No! No! Funniest thing on TV since the (Peel-Hyped) Fast Show and The > Royle > Family! > > Watch it again, Stig boy! The whole series if possible! > > You can't possibly watch the Drinking Our Own Urine or the Incompetent Vet > Explodes Tortoise sketches without cracking up. > > And Royston Vasey is Roy (Chubby) Brown's real name, allegedly. > > Is anyone else pissed off at how patchy the Peel Show info going onto the > Peel/BBC website is? > > Seems like four or five show tracklists a month just don't appear, usually > the Peel Acres and the outside broadcast shows. > > Cheers, > > Rocker, > > Still working on my Peel Lists! > > rocker@... > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > With more than 18 million e-mails exchanged daily... > http://www.onelist.com > ...ONElist is THE place where the world talks! > From rlawson@... Fri Jun 4 12:46:32 1999 From: rlawson@... (CR Lawson) Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 18:46:32 +0800 Subject: Solex/Stereolab Message-ID: <76369.71.294.959309995@...> wasn't there also a split single with Laptop from the Peel Session . i hate to admit i have it as it's on Firece Panda but i can't think of the name. Rob Andy Smith wrote: > From: Andy Smith > > Dan asked: > > > Morn all do any of you out there have a discography of solex > > as the live session yesterday was excellent > > Not complete but I know of: > > Solex vs. The Hitmeister (very good album on Matador OLE 287-2 - just > happened to have it in my work CD bag) > Solex all lickety spit (single - main track is on the album, two extra > tracks that I don't remember much about) > > There may be other singles from the first LP, plus there was an > excellent Peel session. New LP is due out this year and Peel has already > played a single Randy Constanza (sp?). > > Steve Watts: > > > Anyone catch the live set on Peel last night? I must admit I've been > > growing a litle tired of the 'Lab as they've been getting a bit too > > 'easy listening' of late, but last night's set reassured me > > slightly. They played a few new ones which suggested a return to the > > krautrock sound of a few years ago, so hopefully the new LP will be > > a lot better than the appalling 'Dots and loops'. > > I thought Dots was excellent, especially the tracks with the more > drum'n'bassy percussion, although I do tire a little of some of the easy > listening type stuff and I loved the early one-chord wonders. I think > last week's Guardian Guide said there's an album due in August. > > And I loved the League Of Gentlemen. Unoriginal and slightly > stereotypical characters, perhaps, but very well done and funnier than a > lot of the Fast Show's humour by repetition. > > Andy > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Have you entered ONElist's "Grow to Give" program? > http://www.onelist.com > Deadline is June 19. Join now to win $5000 for your charity of choice. From d.mckinnon@... Fri Jun 4 12:53:55 1999 From: d.mckinnon@... (Dougal McKinnon) Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 11:53:55 +0100 (British Summer Time) Subject: solex and patchy info. Message-ID: <76369.71.295.959309995@...> > From: Dan Chapman > > Morn all do any of you out there have a discography of solex as the > live session yesterday was excellent and I do not know allot about them > cheers in advance on that one. You could try the Solex website at: http://www.xs4all.nl/~solex/ Don't suppose anyone taped the session/broadcast did they? I missed it. dougie dougal mckinnon (d.mckinnon@...) PS LoG - vastly overrated and, in the main, totally unfunny. Also responsible for gangs of students hanging round in pubs shouting catchphrases at each other before doubling up with laughter. The above also applies to the Fast Show. From jmsmall@... Fri Jun 4 20:29:01 1999 From: jmsmall@... (Stig) Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 19:29:01 +0100 Subject: Solex/Stereolab Message-ID: <76369.71.296.959309995@...> CR Lawson wrote: > wasn't there also a split single with Laptop from the Peel Session . > i hate to admit i have it as it's on Firece Panda but i can't think of the > name. It's their cover of "You're So Square" (a Joni Mitchell song) from the aforementioned excellent live peel session and includes the Maida Vale half of the after-song conversation with Mr Peel in which Solex girl gets about three or four words in. That man will waffle on, won't he? Stig -- jmsmall@... From cwoodmansey@... Sat Jun 5 13:08:14 1999 From: cwoodmansey@... (Clare Woodmansey) Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 12:08:14 +0100 Subject: re LoG Message-ID: <76369.71.297.959309995@...> > From: Stephen_J._Wood@... (Stephen J. Wood) > The Royle > Family! Now that's my idea of a sitcom. Hilarious. Rob From rlawson@... Sun Jun 6 05:43:16 1999 From: rlawson@... (C R Lawson) Date: Sun, 06 Jun 1999 11:43:16 +0800 Subject: Solex/Stereolab Message-ID: <76369.72.298.959309995@...> cheers stig, i did check it when i got home on Friday. yes he does seem to waffle on sometimes, i think he gets nervous which is incredible for someone who's been doing this for so many years. Rob Stig wrote: > From: Stig > > CR Lawson wrote: > > wasn't there also a split single with Laptop from the Peel Session . > > > i hate to admit i have it as it's on Firece Panda but i can't think > of the > > name. > > It's their cover of "You're So Square" (a Joni Mitchell song) from the > > aforementioned excellent live peel session and includes the Maida Vale > > half of the after-song conversation with Mr Peel in which Solex girl > gets about three or four words in. That man will waffle on, won't he? > > Stig > > -- > jmsmall@... > > ------------------------------- > ---------------------------------------- > "Congratulations to 'Voice-Diary,' our latest ONElist of the Week. > http://www.onelist.com > Visit our homepage and share with us how ONElist is changing YOUR > life! From martinw@... Mon Jun 7 18:58:43 1999 From: martinw@... (Martin Wheatley) Date: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 17:58:43 +0100 Subject: Solex/Stereolab Message-ID: <76369.73.299.959309995@...> Stig wrote >It's their cover of "You're So Square" (a Joni Mitchell song) from the >aforementioned excellent live peel session and includes the Maida Vale >half of the after-song conversation with Mr Peel in which Solex girl >gets about three or four words in. That man will waffle on, won't he? He is a great dj but a lousy interviewer. A fact that I think he would be the first to admit martinw PS out of curiosity - is anyone building a tape collection of the Peelenium? From smchugh@... Mon Jun 7 19:19:51 1999 From: smchugh@... (Stuart McHugh) Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 18:19:51 +0100 Subject: Solex/Stereolab Message-ID: <76369.73.300.959309995@...> >From: Martin Wheatley >He is a great dj but a lousy interviewer. A fact that I think he would >be the first to admit Everything's relative, and while Peel is indeed not your Jeremy Paxman of the rock'n'roll questioning world, which adjective is left to describe Jo Wiley? S June webradio with Arab Strap, Dawn of the Reps, Gilded Lil, Spare Snare, Rev. Corps of Teenage Jesus and more, at http://www.vacant.demon.co.uk/jockrock/radio/raradio.html From jmsmall@... Mon Jun 7 20:49:02 1999 From: jmsmall@... (Stig) Date: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 19:49:02 +0100 Subject: Solex/Stereolab Message-ID: <76369.73.301.959309995@...> Martin Wheatley wrote: > PS out of curiosity - is anyone building a tape collection of the > Peelenium? I can see this "where's me washboard?" stuff getting a bit tedious seeing as it's going to go on like this until the fifties when a more varied range of music first started being put on records. Hm, maybe there'll be some blues before then. Stig -- jmsmall@... From Les_Miller@... Tue Jun 8 10:33:09 1999 From: Les_Miller@... (Les Miller) Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 09:33:09 +0100 Subject: Solex/Stereolab Message-ID: <76369.73.302.959309995@...> I have kept a few of the ones broadcast so far. Martin Wheatley on 07/06/99 17:58:43 Please respond to peel@onelist.com Sent by: Martin Wheatley To: peel@onelist.com cc: (Les Miller/GB/3Com) Subject: Re: [peel] Solex/Stereolab From: Martin Wheatley PS out of curiosity - is anyone building a tape collection of the Peelenium? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Where do some of the Internet's largest email lists reside? http://www.onelist.com At ONElist - the most scalable and reliable service on the Internet. From m00zfb02@... Wed Jun 9 00:11:16 1999 From: m00zfb02@... (R Fleay) Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 22:11:16 +0000 Subject: ha! Message-ID: <76369.74.303.959309995@...> Congrats to Stig for getting JP to read out that thing about Stu looking like the Fonz.....arf But CURSES my minidisc has packed up and I can't record the Flossie & The Unicorns session....double bummer ========================================= robfleay@... http://www.aas.mcmail.com ========================================= From steve@... Wed Jun 9 13:15:47 1999 From: steve@... (Steve Watts) Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 11:15:47 GMT Subject: (Fwd) Bella Union Update Message-ID: <76369.75.304.959309995@...> This might be of interest... ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- At some point in the past 6 months you have written to the Cocteau Twins or their record label Bella Union, and this email is to update you on what's going on. We really do appreciate your messages and support, and apologies that we don't always have the chance to reply to you all direct. The Cocteau Twins members are currently involved in solo projects. Robin and Simon are writing together and separately, and these new recordings will be released in 2000 on Bella Union. Elizabeth is also recording a solo record for blanco y negro. But the big news this week is the release of the SNEAKSTER debut album "Pseudo Nouveau" (BELLACD10) on Bella Union. SNEAKSTER are Mark Clifford (sounds) and Sophie Hinkley (voice) Mark Clifford has been an influential figure in British electronic music for several years now working out of the Warp Records stable with his band Seefeel. Many Cocteau Twins fans will already be familiar with his work from his re-mixes on the 1997 EP "Otherness". Two limited edition EP's accompany the album; the first EP 'Splinters' is already available on CD and vinyl, and the second featuring 4 Robin Guthrie re-mixes of new tracks will be released this summer. FUTURE RELEASES COCTEAU TWINS BBC RADIO SESSIONS 1982-1996 (BELLACD14) Bella Union will release this special double CD (30 tracks) in September 1999. With a sleeve designed by Russell Mills (Eno, Sylvian, NIN etc), the 2 CD set will contain ALL the John Peel session tracks from the '80s along with more recent tracks culled from the Radio One Mark Radcliffe show, and Robert Elms on GLR. RUSSELL MILLS & UNDARK 'PEARL AND UMBRA' (BELLACD13) This record is also due for release in September 1999. It features contributions from: Brian Eno, Thurston Moore, Kevin Shields, Michael Brook, Sneaker Pimps, Trent Reznor, David Sylvian & Ingrid Chavez, Bill Laswell, Harold Budd, Sussan Deyhim, Peter Gabriel and many more. RUSSELL MILLS, the artist behind countless Eno & Sylvian album covers, Tom Smyth (engineer) and Robin Guthrie (project general) use the musical contributions from the above to paint their own fascinating musical picture. This is a very cool record indeed! BUYING BELLA UNION RELEASES The entire Bella Union catalogue is available through our on-line store, at the lowest prices around. Just go to http://www.bellaunion.com with your credit card to order. Alternatively you can write to us at: PO Box 315, Twickenham, TW1 1TZ, UK, and enclose a sterling cheque or IMO Please keep in touch with us & let us know what you think of the Bella Union releases.. Thanks for all your support. Best wishes, Fiona, Robin, Simon & Pete at Bella Union To be removed from our mailing list, simply reply with "REMOVE" in the subject. If you have received this message in error, we apologize!! From martinw@... Tue Jun 8 23:59:08 1999 From: martinw@... (Martin Wheatley) Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 22:59:08 +0100 Subject: Solex/Stereolab Message-ID: <76369.75.305.959309995@...> Martin Wheatley wrote: >> PS out of curiosity - is anyone building a tape collection of the >> Peelenium? Stig wrote >I can see this "where's me washboard?" stuff getting a bit tedious >seeing as it's going to go on like this until the fifties when a more >varied range of music first started being put on records. Hm, maybe >there'll be some blues before then. 'Really enjoying the Peelenium' he wrote in his fax last night! I can see there are gaps in your musical education. The Peelenium is currently in the last couple of years of genuine Music Hall stuff. We are likely to get a year or two of World War 1 songs followed by early jazz and blues. So far he has been playing largely UK stuff. That may change soon. There is a very wide range of music in the 20s, 30s and 40s on record if he chooses to use it martinw From jmsmall@... Wed Jun 9 22:37:35 1999 From: jmsmall@... (Stig) Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 21:37:35 +0100 Subject: the gaps maketh the man Message-ID: <76369.75.306.959309995@...> The educated Martin Wheatley wrote: > >I can see this "where's me washboard?" stuff getting a bit tedious > >seeing as it's going to go on like this until the fifties when a more > >varied range of music first started being put on records. Hm, maybe > >there'll be some blues before then. > > 'Really enjoying the Peelenium' he wrote in his fax last night! Look at his little face! It's almost as if he understands! I've thoroughly enjoyed the Peelennium so far, but I really don't think it's intended to be an attempt to document musical movements and developments in any serious way. As someone commented, at this stage it's doubtless just a question of the very few records that are actually available from the years in question. For that reason I made the comment that I can imagine it getting a bit samey as we go through the early decades of recorded music, since relatively speaking there's not a great deal of variety to the kind of music that was being put on records in the early half of this century when you compare it to the latter half. The interesting thing of course is that by the time we get into the era of Peel's own career we'll be positively overwhelmed with possibilities. Look at the breathtaking eclecticism of any single Peel programme of this year and compare it to the distinct lack of musical and stylistic variety in the records being produced in the early decades of the century. It'll be fascinating to see increasing evidence of this as the Peelennium reaches the explosion of the record industry into the mass market. Stiggsy, really rather proud of the gaps in his education > I can see there are gaps in your musical education. The Peelenium is currently > in the last couple of years of genuine Music Hall stuff. We are likely > to get a year or two of World War 1 songs followed by early jazz and blues. > So far he has been playing largely UK stuff. That may change soon. There > is a very wide range of music in the 20s, 30s and 40s on record if he chooses > to use it > > martinw -- jmsmall@... From martinw@... Thu Jun 10 21:22:57 1999 From: martinw@... (Martin Wheatley) Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 20:22:57 +0100 Subject: the gaps maketh the man Message-ID: <76369.76.307.959309995@...> Stig wrote >Look at his little face! It's almost as if he understands! No chance :-) >I've thoroughly enjoyed the Peelennium so far, but I really don't think it's >intended to be an attempt to document musical movements and developments >in any serious way. Of course not. It's to play things that we might not know from areas that interest Peel musically and which comes from the cutting edge of the time And may will surprise you to know that Music Hall was not mainstream - it was working class at the time when most music was middle class - the punk of its day. It doesn't seem that way now because most of the rest of the music has been forgotten and Music Hall has retained a following so people still know it Peel has always followed the cutting edge but time changes things and what's cutting edge one day is mainstream the next. Peel was the first to play Mike Oldfield and Genesis as well as the Clash you know. >As someone commented, at this stage it's doubtless >just a question of the very few records that are actually available from >the years in question. This may be true for first few years of the century but even there he's largely stuck to one style when there were many available >For that reason I made the comment that I can >imagine it getting a bit samey as we go through the early decades of >recorded music, since relatively speaking there's not a great deal of >variety to the kind of music that was being put on records in the early >half of this century when you compare it to the latter half. If what you say is true then Peel has committed himself to playing many hours of 'samey' music on his show for the next few months. Doesn't sound like the Peel I know. Trust him! There was the same width of music available in the 20s, 30s and 40s as there is now. All the way from ethnic to serious classical with popular in between There were no LPs or CDs so tracks had a length limit but there were a great many 78s put out. Peel has access to all of these via the BBC Gramophone Library For what it's worth some of the tracks he's played so far have been common ones in that they have been reissued on albums but some have not and must have been put on the minidiscs he plays from original copies in the library. Since the researcher on the Peel show is Stig's generation I'd guess there is an expert in the library who has prepared them for him. Later on Peel will no doubt select the tracks himself >The >interesting thing of course is that by the time we get into the era of >Peel's own career we'll be positively overwhelmed with possibilities. >Look at the breathtaking eclecticism of any single Peel programme of >this year and compare it to the distinct lack of musical and stylistic >variety in the records being produced in the early decades of the >century. The true mark of the scholar. Comparing something you know with something you know bugger all about. You'll go far! There is a career in journalism awaiting you :-) >Stiggsy, really rather proud of the gaps in his education Very much your loss martinw who has been has been looking for the edges of music for a long time and hasn't got close yet From cwoodmansey@... Thu Jun 10 23:57:45 1999 From: cwoodmansey@... (Clare Woodmansey) Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 22:57:45 +0100 Subject: TEF session Message-ID: <76369.76.308.959309995@...> Just been looking at Peel website - did anyone tape the Third Eye Foundation session last week? I was on holiday, and didn't realise it was on - bugger. Rob From aas Fri Jun 11 02:17:00 1999 From: aas (r) Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 00:17:00 +0000 Subject: TEF session Message-ID: <76369.76.309.959309995@...> > From: "Clare Woodmansey" > > Just been looking at Peel website - did anyone tape the Third Eye > Foundation session last week? I was on holiday, and didn't realise it was > on - bugger. On this subject - did anyone tape Peel's show tonight (thursday) in particular The Cuban Boys track ========================================= robfleay@... http://www.aas.mcmail.com ========================================= From smchugh@... Fri Jun 11 10:51:10 1999 From: smchugh@... (Stuart McHugh) Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 09:51:10 +0100 Subject: the gaps maketh the man Message-ID: <76369.76.310.959309995@...> >From: Martin Wheatley > > >Stig wrote > >>Look at his little face! It's almost as if he understands! > >No chance :-) >Since the researcher on the Peel show is Stig's generation I'd guess there is >an expert in the library who has prepared them for him. Later on Peel will no >doubt select the tracks himself. Miaow! What this little spat has shown is that the stuff Peel has been playing so far in the Peelennium is pretty much unrepresentative of music of the start of the century, and if what Mr. Wheatley says is true, not even breaking the surface of what is available in the BBC libraries. Why should this be? Certainly, it's not giving Stig, myself, and anyone else who knows 'bugger all' about early music the chance to find out about it, which is a opportunity missed. I must say that though it's been fascinating to hear what people (well, maybe just the great unwashed) were listening to 90 or 100 years ago, it's all been pretty torturous listening. Anyone who remembers 'The Good Old Days' on telly will surely agree. I would have loved to hear what early 'ethnic' music was like. Ah well, not long till Robert Johnson, eh? Stuart From jmsmall@... Fri Jun 11 14:48:36 1999 From: jmsmall@... (Stig) Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 13:48:36 +0100 Subject: the peelennium Message-ID: <76369.77.311.959309995@...> Martin Wheatley wrote: > Of course not. It's to play things that we might not know from areas that > interest Peel musically and which comes from the cutting edge of the time Purely in terms of the musical content haven't the tracks played so far been incredibly tame? I seriously doubt that these music hall recordings represent the musical "cutting edge" of the time, I think it's more likely to be the popular entertainment of the time adhering essentially to known and established musical styles. There may well have been a lot of 'popular' music (by which I basically mean not formal, orchestral music) being played that was far more "cutting edge" than the music hall records that were being produced, and which was never recorded and never would have been recorded at this early stage of the recording industry. I'm not suggesting the records in the Peelennium so far don't "interest Peel musically", far from it, but the lack of variety in form and style makes me think that actually there's not a great range of stuff available for him to choose from. I'd also say that so far they have been very much "novelty" records in the sense that they seem to be recordings of the (occasionally astonishing) vocal talents and (occasionally depressing) comic talents of performers of the time. I imagine that pretty much *any* record was a novelty in 1901 though, and perhaps that's the point. I think the main thing that has interested me so far is the fact that these are records I would never have heard - and certainly not on Radio One - were it not for the Peelennium. They are fascinating as historical documents if not perhaps the kind of records I would choose to put on to bop to in my boisterous fashion around the lounge on a Saturday night. > And may will surprise you to know that Music Hall was not mainstream - it was > working class at the time when most music was middle class - the punk of its > day. Or the Ocean Colour Scene? The Shed 7? Just as a matter of curiosity, does anyone think of punk as 'working class music'? In which case what exactly is the 'working class music' of today because I'm not entirely certain that music can be shown to adhere to socio-economic definitions in any meaningful way. Of course, I don't pretend to be any kind of authority and I do realise that there are subjective opinions to be had. > >For that reason I made the comment that I can > >imagine it getting a bit samey as we go through the early decades of > >recorded music, since relatively speaking there's not a great deal of > >variety to the kind of music that was being put on records in the early > >half of this century when you compare it to the latter half. > If what you say is true then Peel has committed himself to playing many > hours of 'samey' music on his show for the next few months. Doesn't sound > like the Peel I know. Trust him! I've been through this myself, wondering if the decision to broadcast a compendium of songs of the century based around very weak wordplay will have committed a substantial amount of airtime to a vast lack of choice and variety. While I suspect you may be right in this unique instance and look forward to seeing whatever it is Peelie has up his sleeve for the remaining seven months of the Peelennium, I really don't think I would care if it does end up as "samey" and boring for the first--um--thirty years or so because the lack of foresight which could result in such a misjudgment is perhaps one of the most endearing things I could possibly imagine. > There was the same width of music available in the 20s, 30s and 40s as there > is now. I look forward to hearing the 1930s gramophone record equivalents of industrial techno and random noise. Let's face it, in the main it's clear that little more than traditional musical forms, and I'm going to be controversial here in calling them essentially extensions of the various folk traditions, were being put on records during this period. By this I'm suggesting that comparatively little which could be considered musically startling, revolutionary or wholly distinct from established musical tradition is available on records of this era. You make the valid point that the notion of "cutting edge" and originality changes over time, but I would suggest that the difference between the way records are being produced today and the way they were being produced in the early part of the century makes it more likely that we will find styles of music available to us which actively seek to separate themselves from musical traditions from the later part of the century than the former. I'm assuming that the Peelennium isn't going to include much experimentation in the field of orchestral music, but my suggestion is that experimentation with form, by which I mean attempts to tread unexplored musical paths within what might be considered popular music is less likely to have been recorded during the early period than during ours. "There was the same width of music available in the 20s, 30s and 40s as there is now." My argument is basically and I shall say it slowly this time that as the technology of recorded sound has advanced and become cheaper and more readily available, the tendency for more experimental works to be released on record has increased. In terms of technology in 1999 we're at the point where anyone can produce a record for minimal cost; not only has this minimised the ability of the vested interests of established recording companies to dictate what will and will not be recorded and released based upon the necessity for mass purchase, it has created a climate in which experimentation with musical form of the type that would have been at best restricted and more likely non-existent in the 1940s has become common. The sheer quantity of records being produced away from the mainstream extends the likelihood that amongst all this activity we will find experimentation with form. In this climate of experimentation with the medium of recorded sound it is clear that a vastly greater range of records in which musical forms are challenged and stretched will be available from the latter decades of our century when compared with the former and this heavily biases the weight of choice of the three or four records from each year to be played as part of the Peelennium upon the later decades of the twentieth century. > Since the > researcher on the Peel show is Stig's generation You almost seem to imply here that you define people's worth by generation > I'd guess there is an expert > in the library who has prepared them for him. Later on Peel will no doubt > select the tracks himself Do you really mean to suggest you think Peelie has had no say in the choice of records for the Peelennium up to this point? Learning that I was in fact listening to a programme that would let "an expert" choose the records being played is not the kind of thing I would expect from Peel's programme. I think if Peel has taught us anything it's that "an expert" is often not nearly as interesting to listen to as a passionate amateur. > >The > >interesting thing of course is that by the time we get into the era of > >Peel's own career we'll be positively overwhelmed with possibilities. > >Look at the breathtaking eclecticism of any single Peel programme of > >this year and compare it to the distinct lack of musical and stylistic > >variety in the records being produced in the early decades of the > >century. > > The true mark of the scholar. Comparing something you know > with something you know bugger all about. You'll go far! > There is a career in journalism awaiting you :-) Not for the first time I find myself asking you: does this actually mean anything or is it simply evidence of a petty and pompous little mind? ;) If my words have any definable intention I would suggest that it is to explore and question rather to than project and impose any supposedly final or expert meaning onto anything as arbitrary as culture. > >Stiggsy, really rather proud of the gaps in his education > Very much your loss No no you clearly misunderstand; one of us was joking Stig -- jmsmall@... From mattow@... Sat Jun 12 14:26:36 1999 From: mattow@... (Matt Watkinson) Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 13:26:36 +0100 Subject: TEF session Message-ID: <76369.78.312.959309995@...> On this subject - did anyone tape Peel's show tonight (thursday) in particular The Cuban Boys track - The second to last track? Yeah I got it. Do you want a copy? Minidisc? Address? Mail me offlist. Matt From mozy@... Sat Jun 12 16:42:52 1999 From: mozy@... (mozy) Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 15:42:52 +0100 Subject: the gaps maketh the man Message-ID: <76369.78.313.959309995@...> Martin Wheatley wrote: > Of course not. It's to play things that we might not know from areas that > interest Peel musically and which comes from the cutting edge of the time > And may will surprise you to know that Music Hall was not mainstream - it was > working class at the time when most music was middle class - the punk of its > day. It doesn't seem that way now because most of the rest of the music > has been forgotten and Music Hall has retained a following so people still > know it Are you sure punk can truly be described as working class movement? I was there and I distinctly remember nice middle class kids going off on shopping trips to London to buy Westwood designs from Sex/World's End. Many of those making the music or pulling the strings were middle class, e.g. Mclaren, Strummer, Siouxsie. It was more an urban concept that cut across the socioeconomic boundaries. > There was the same width of music available in the 20s, 30s and 40s as there > is now. All the way from ethnic to serious classical with popular in between > There were no LPs or CDs so tracks had a length limit but there were a great > many 78s put out. Peel has access to all of these via the BBC Gramophone > Library > For what it's worth some of the tracks he's played so far have been common > ones > in that they have been reissued on albums but some have not and must have been > put on the minidiscs he plays from original copies in the library. Since the > researcher on the Peel show is Stig's generation I'd guess there is an expert > in the library who has prepared them for him. Later on Peel will no doubt > select the tracks himself > I should like to imagine that what is being selected by whomever is intended to reflect what Peel might have played if the occupation of DJ had been around then. It may not sound radical to our ears, but would have the same novelty then as his choices do now. I may know nothing about the variety and range of music around at the turn of the century, but I can't conceive how there would have been the same diversity as there is now. I assume that this is why so many labels have been coined to try and categorise the astonishing number of genres. Now, people have access to so much more in the way of recording and music-making technology,that experimentalism has to be more rife. > >The > >interesting thing of course is that by the time we get into the era of > >Peel's own career we'll be positively overwhelmed with possibilities. > >Look at the breathtaking eclecticism of any single Peel programme of > >this year and compare it to the distinct lack of musical and stylistic > >variety in the records being produced in the early decades of the > >century. > > The true mark of the scholar. Comparing something you know > with something you know bugger all about. You'll go far! > There is a career in journalism awaiting you :-) > That's a bit cruel, isn't it? I thought this was a discussion list, not an arena for hurling insults. Maureen From martinw@... Fri Jun 11 22:27:51 1999 From: martinw@... (Martin Wheatley) Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 21:27:51 +0100 Subject: Subject: Re: the gaps maketh the man Message-ID: <76369.78.314.959309995@...> I wrote >>Since the researcher on the Peel show is Stig's generation I'd guess there is >>an expert in the library who has prepared them for him. Later on Peel will no >>doubt select the tracks himself. Stuart McHugh replied >Miaow! I know! I just got irritated because someone was dismissing (or rather denying the existence of) whole swathes of music without hearing it. My point was the decision to play mostly Music Hall stuff pre WW1 was an artistic decision rather than one forced on him by absence of anything else Whether you approve of that decision is another matter entirely although it would be difficult to make a proper judgement without knowing the other music It's probably a pointer that we shouldn't expect the mainstream or obvious in other eras too >What this little spat has shown is that the stuff Peel has been >playing so far in the Peelennium is pretty much unrepresentative of music >of the start of the century, Which is a exactly what Peel does with present day music so why is that surprising? >I would have loved to hear what early 'ethnic' music was like. Pre WW1 there was a lot of folk music. It was the era of Victorian clergymen wandering around the Sussex Downs with recording equipment! Most of it was not commercially issued at the time but probably still available to the BBC American ethnic would be early black jazz (as distinct from commercial white watered-down jazz) and hillbilly music >Ah well, not long till Robert Johnson, eh? Quite a while. If he is going to play US music which is not yet clear there is a decade of female blues singers first (many of them wonderful) and then people like Charlie Patten and Blind Lemon Jefferson before you get to Robert Johnson. His stuff was 1936 - that's about August! martinw From jmsmall@... Sat Jun 12 18:01:55 1999 From: jmsmall@... (Stig) Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 17:01:55 +0100 Subject: the gaps maketh the man Message-ID: <76369.78.315.959309995@...> mozy wrote: > > The true mark of the scholar. Comparing something you know > > with something you know bugger all about. You'll go far! > > There is a career in journalism awaiting you :-) > > > That's a bit cruel, isn't it? I thought this was a discussion list, not > an arena for hurling insults. I'm not sure you can describe it as cruel, generally when people start using email (well in fact any medium) to insult they tend to betray the shallowness of their own minds more than anything else and this case is no exception, often it's quite fun to watch people betray a certain pettiness. Martin Wheatley wrote: > I know! I just got irritated because someone was dismissing (or rather > denying the existence of) whole swathes of music without hearing it. If you think that was me then you based your pompous little insults on a basic misunderstanding of what I actually said. Read the words that I write and try to imagine what they might possibly mean. Furthermore this is a forum for discussion not a place where people who hope to measure the absolute truth of their opinions against others are welcome. At least that's what I'd like to hope. Sorry but small mindedness always irritates. Stig -- jmsmall@... From Stephen_J._Wood@... Sat Jun 12 11:27:10 1999 From: Stephen_J._Wood@... (Stephen_J._Wood@...) Date: 12 Jun 1999 09:27:10 GMT Subject: The Peelenium Message-ID: <76369.78.316.959309995@...> I would have loved to hear what early 'ethnic' music was like. In the first couple of decades of the century there were far fewer record releases than there are now, and mostly, as today, it was the stuff that there was popular demand for that got released. This is why most of the records released were either Classical, or Music Hall/Humourous. Very little so-called Ethnic music made it onto vinyl, (and anyway that music hall stuff is pretty ethnic for the UK of the time!). Virtually all the classical stuff has subsequently been re-recorded and is mostly still available in pretty much the same arrangements,(and it seems to be mostly the same people listening to it on Radio 3, ha ha), so it's mainly the music hall stuff which is worth playing now, since such a lot of it relies on the individual performers/performance rather than just an orchestral arrangement. For this reason I'd expect to hear a lot of Jazz becoming played through the next couple of decades, as it became more mainstream, whereas blues was never as popular with a mass audience, so the releases were rarer. Of course, this may well be shifted by Peelie's tastes, and the relative importance of those early blues performers as influences for later stuff like rock&roll. We shall see! Cheers, Rocker, P.S It should be called the "Peelentury". rocker@... From kimhl@... Sun Jun 13 19:03:29 1999 From: kimhl@... (Kim Harrison-Lavoie) Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 17:03:29 +0000 Subject: Yellow6 Message-ID: <76369.79.317.959309995@...> Does anyone know anything about the Yellow6 track that John Peel played last Wednesday called 'Even'? Is it an album track, the track from the Infrasonic Waves ep or a single? I missed the first part but what I heard sounded pretty good. Cheers, Kim ---------------------- Kim Harrison-Lavoie kimhl@... From martinw@... Sun Jun 13 20:20:55 1999 From: martinw@... (Martin Wheatley) Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 19:20:55 +0100 Subject: Peelenium Message-ID: <76369.79.318.959309995@...> >Purely in terms of the musical content haven't the tracks played so far >been incredibly tame? I seriously doubt that these music hall recordings >represent the musical "cutting edge" of the time, Tame to 1999 ears but not to 1905 ears to whom much of it was shocking >I'm not suggesting the records in the Peelennium so far don't "interest >Peel musically", far from it, but the lack of variety in form and style >makes me think that actually there's not a great range of stuff He has chosen to have music hall records pre WW1 because that is what he wants to hear. It is an artistic choice not the abscence of alternatives >> And may will surprise you to know that Music Hall was not mainstream - it was >> working class at the time when most music was middle class - the punk of its >> day. >Or the Ocean Colour Scene? The Shed 7? Definitely not >Just as a matter of curiosity, does anyone think of punk as 'working >class music'? In which case what exactly is the 'working class music' of >today because I'm not entirely certain that music can be shown to adhere >to socio-economic definitions in any meaningful way. Of course, I don't >pretend to be any kind of authority and I do realise that there are >subjective opinions to be had. This is absolutely correct for the period from about 1960 onwards But there have been major social changes Punk is not working class music because in the 1980s class distinction is meaningless but it is not meaningless in the 1950s and it was everything in the 1900s Class structures then were rigid. If you were born working class you died working class and there were very few opportunities to improve yourself. Most working class people even as recently as the start of WW11 did the same job in the same place for the same employer all their life. In the early 1900s most working class people would not have had gramophones (and some cases not electricity!). Read a book or two about the pre-WW1 period and you will see that this is so. The Music Hall records are the middle classes flirting with dangerous antisocial music. As a result many major Music Hall artists are not properly represented on record and in some instances only in much-cleaned up form Music like everything else had a social divide in the 1900s but this has died in recent years > There was the same width of music available in the 20s, 30s and 40s as there > is now. Onviously we will have to disagree on that. >I look forward to hearing the 1930s gramophone record equivalents of >industrial techno and random noise. You aren't likely to because the equivalent movement was classical and earlier and Peel is unlikely to play it. Schonberg, Berg and the atonal 12 tone people would be the equivalent of industrial music and produced much the same audience reaction. If you ever get the chance read the reviews of Stravinsky's 'Rite Of Spring' where the audience walked out of the premier. To show my point about 1999 ears this now considered a standard piece in the classical repertoire. Thing's change and so do the things that upset people. Its less than 40 years since the Beatles caused a national sensation by having hair that reached to the collar of their shirts - enough to give my parents a heart attack - it was talked about in Parliament! >> Since the >> researcher on the Peel show is Stig's generation >You almost seem to imply here that you define people's worth by >generation I was simply pointing out rather clumsily that a pop music researcher is unlikely to be an expert on early 1900s music bearing in mind that the BBC tend to employ people like Jo Whiley to do the job! >> I'd guess there is an expert >> in the library who has prepared them for him. Later on Peel will no doubt >> select the tracks himself >Do you really mean to suggest you think Peelie has had no say in the >choice of records for the Peelennium up to this point? Learning that I >was in fact listening to a programme that would let "an expert" choose >the records being played is not the kind of thing I would expect from >Peel's programme. If you were listening to Thursday night's show you would have heard him say that he was hearing some of the tracks played so far for the first time when he played them on the show Peel for all his great knowledge cannot know about everything and at this stage he doesn't know enough to make the choices without doing research that he doesn't have time to do (he still has that ever-growing mountain of new stuff to listen to!) The Gramophone library would have connections to all sorts of experts so I think it very probably all he has done is to ask them to give him minidisks of 4 tracks of Music Hall music for every year up to a certain point. Later when it gets areas he knows about he will make the choices - which is pretty much what he said on Thursday >Not for the first time I find myself asking you: does this actually >mean anything or is it simply evidence of a petty and pompous little >mind? ;) Offensive, uncalled for and inappropriate to this group >If my words have any definable intention I would suggest that it >is to explore and question rather to than project and impose any >supposedly final or expert meaning onto anything as arbitrary as >culture. And just how does that square up with dismissing most pre 1950s music as you have done. Exploring and questioning rather than just making assumptions that anything you don't know can't be any good and doesn't exist is all I've been asking you to do I wrote > The true mark of the scholar. Comparing something you know > with something you know bugger all about. You'll go far! > There is a career in journalism awaiting you :-) > It's IRONY Stig - note the smiley at the end . You have been on Fallnet and should understand that. Whereas the pile of personal insults you have directed at me is just gratuitously offensive Despite Stig's obvious desire to I have no intention of taking part in a flame war and I won't post further martinw From aas Sun Jun 13 21:45:51 1999 From: aas (r) Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 19:45:51 +0000 Subject: Peelenium Message-ID: <76369.79.319.959309995@...> > It's IRONY Stig - note the smiley at the end . You have been on Fallnet OK so in an attempt to change the subject...I followed The Fall for a long time but the last album of their's that I bought was Middle Class Revolt...I was getting increasingly disappointed with them so I decided to not bother after that. Have I missed anything good? Seriously.... The Fall are so highly revered amongst people it's difficult to get an objective view. Anyone care to try? ========================================= robfleay@... http://www.aas.mcmail.com ========================================= From jmsmall@... Mon Jun 14 00:15:20 1999 From: jmsmall@... (Stig) Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 23:15:20 +0100 Subject: Peelenium Message-ID: <76369.79.320.959309995@...> Martin Wheatley wrote: > >I'm not suggesting the records in the Peelennium so far don't "interest > >Peel musically", far from it, but the lack of variety in form and style > >makes me think that actually there's not a great range of stuff > > He has chosen to have music hall records pre WW1 because that is what > he wants to hear. It is an artistic choice not the abscence of alternatives Well I'll take your word for that, as I said it was purely the lack of variety so far that made me wonder whether it was a lack of choice more than anything that was the deciding factor. As I also said, I wasn't claiming to be an authority on pre WWI records. > Peel for all his great knowledge cannot know about everything and at this > stage he doesn't know enough to make the choices without doing research that he > doesn't have time to do > The Gramophone library would have connections to all sorts of experts so I > think it very probably all he has done is to ask them to give him minidisks > of 4 tracks of Music Hall music for every year up to a certain point. If this is the case I wonder upon what he has based his 'artistic choice' of music hall as a representative genre of the first 12 years of the century. I always thought with Peel it was a case of playing the records he likes whoever they're by and whatever style they are - you think he has decided to delegate choice of records for the Peelennium by genre at this early point? I had assumed that's the last thing he'd do but you could well be right; it may even be a case that if he was doing the choosing himself he would have come up with a more varied range than we've been getting, if as you say there's a whole range of records from the first decade of the century that has been neglected - if that's true and there are many varied genres available to him on vinyl, I simply can't accept that none of it would be 'as interesting' as music hall. And if that's true, as Stuart said it is quite an opportunity missed even if it's not intended to be a serious or definitive look at the development of pop music throughout the century. > >> Since the > >> researcher on the Peel show is Stig's generation > > >You almost seem to imply here that you define people's worth by > >generation > > I was simply pointing out rather clumsily that a pop music researcher is > unlikely to be an expert on early 1900s music bearing in mind that the BBC tend to > employ people like Jo Whiley to do the job! Apology accepted > I wrote > > The true mark of the scholar. Comparing something you know > > with something you know bugger all about. You'll go far! > > There is a career in journalism awaiting you :-) > > > It's IRONY Stig - note the smiley at the end. You have been on Fallnet and > should understand that. Whereas the pile of personal insults you have > directed at me is just gratuitously offensive I wrote: > >Not for the first time I find myself asking you: does this actually > >mean anything or is it simply evidence of a petty and pompous little > >mind? ;) > Offensive, uncalled for and inappropriate to this group To quote you 8 lines up, please note the smiley at the end! It was me responding to your barbed shaft of wit in very much the same vein. You previously wrote: > Stuart McHugh replied > >Miaow! > > I know! I just got irritated because ... As for my "string of personal insults", I really don't think I have done any such thing. If you read what I actually wrote I have simply been dismissing several of the "miaow" aspects of your mail which made offensive assumptions and generalisations--not least about an entire generation--as a display of shallow pomposity. Apologies if this analysis of your words caused you offense, but at certain points your words seemed to display these qualities. Don't confuse it with personal insult: I know nothing about you except the evidence you present me in ascii text, you may well be a lovely person > >If my words have any definable intention I would suggest that it > >is to explore and question rather to than project and impose any > >supposedly final or expert meaning onto anything as arbitrary as > >culture. > > And just how does that square up with dismissing most pre 1950s > music as you have done. Exploring and questioning rather than > just making assumptions that anything you don't know can't be any good > and doesn't exist is all I've been asking you to do Well if you look at what I've actually been saying, at no point have I "dismissed most pre 1950s music"; what I *have* done is questioned the availability of as wide a range of records from that era as there is today. My assumptions about a period I know little about are intended to be framed as statements open to debate not posited as absolute truth, so I challenge your assertion that I have "dismissed whole swathes of music" and "made assumptions that anything you don't know can't be any good and doesn't exist". I have done no such thing! I think what I actually first said that you picked me up on was that "a more varied range of music first started being put on records" after the fifties; while clumsily phrased this clearly does not "dismiss most pre 50s music" or claim it "can't be any good and doesn't exist". It makes a general statement about the development of the recording industry, the increasingly common use of recording equipment over time and the corresponding increase in the ease and sophistication of the possibility for experimentation within the medium. > Despite Stig's obvious desire to I have no intention of taking part > in a flame war and I won't post further It's nice to hear you sounding quite reasonable ;) Although please don't stop posting on the subject of the Peelennium I think your opinions and knowledge are valuable and what you have to say interests me. "Obvious desire": again, if you read the words that I actually wrote you will realise that what I have been saying all along is that flaming is petty and small-minded. I, you and a couple of others have stated that certain aspects of your posts were tending towards the cat-like and I was responding to these words of yours. I think this debate is too interesting and important to be bogged down in such evident misunderstanding. Stig, humming "i like everybody" by the cuban boys -- jmsmall@... From jmsmall@... Mon Jun 14 00:40:55 1999 From: jmsmall@... (Stig) Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 23:40:55 +0100 Subject: fall Message-ID: <76369.79.321.959309995@...> r wrote: > I followed > The Fall for a long time but the last album of their's that > I bought was Middle Class Revolt...I was getting > increasingly disappointed with them so I decided to not > bother after that. The last one I got was Levitate which I think is (mostly) excellent, I think the ventures into drum-n-bass are quite fun although it probably annoys some die-hards. I think I lost faith in MES after the whole American tour / assault court-case / Smith-sacks-band thing after that though - seemed to give the idea of Mark E Smith as a harmless lunatic cum genius a sinister twist. I know this is not about the music but I've been less inclined to pay out for records of theirs since then but can be seen lingering in the Fall section of record shops every now and again. I'm still not sure what the current permanent line-up is, anyone know? Permanent in the loosest sense, obviously... Is the Marshall Suite any good? There have been a few pretty good tracks played on Peel's programme but I remain undecided if this is one I ought to own. Tiggipop -- jmsmall@... From jmsmall@... Mon Jun 14 00:44:06 1999 From: jmsmall@... (Stig) Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 23:44:06 +0100 Subject: fall Message-ID: <76369.79.322.959309995@...> Stig wrote: > seemed to give the idea of Mark E Smith as a harmless lunatic > cum genius I seem to have implied that I think Mark E Smith is a cum genius; let me make it clear that there was no romance in our relationship, the rumours are false Stig -- jmsmall@... From d.mckinnon@... Mon Jun 14 09:59:47 1999 From: d.mckinnon@... (Dougal McKinnon) Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 08:59:47 +0100 (British Summer Time) Subject: Peelenium Message-ID: <76369.79.323.959309995@...> Without seeking to involve myself too much in the catfight that's become the Peelenium debate on the Peel list - and if folk are fighting over things he's played from the first decade, just think of the bloodshed that's going to occur when he plays something you hate from later years ("How could he have played x when he could have played y?!?!?!" or "Why didn't he play z?!??!"), can I just say in response to: > From: Martin Wheatley > Punk is not working class music because in the 1980s class distinction is > meaningless I don't think I'd agree with that at all. When you think that the biggest social upheaval in the UK in my lifetime took place in the 1980s with the coming to power of Thatcher (yes, in '79 I know), the year long miners' stike in 1984/85, record unemployment, dismantling of "traditional" industries, the Labour Party turning in and eating itself, etc, etc. I'd say class distinction was at least as valid then as at any time before. And if he doesn't play Big Flame or Bogshed at any stage of the Peelenium, I'll have his head on a spike. dougie dougal mckinnon (d.mckinnon@...) From dan_jc@... Mon Jun 14 12:21:13 1999 From: dan_jc@... (Dan Chapman) Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 03:21:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Sonicsubjunkies Message-ID: <76369.80.324.959309995@...> Morning all. If anyone is interested the album molotov lounge is being released on vinyl strictly limited edition though. For more details go to the Iris-Light web site:- http://www.irislight.demon.co.uk Laters Dan _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com From Les_Miller@... Mon Jun 14 12:35:32 1999 From: Les_Miller@... (Les Miller) Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 11:35:32 +0100 Subject: Sonicsubjunkies Message-ID: <76369.80.325.959309995@...> Thanks for that. The tracks I have heard are pretty awsome - have they had a session yet? Dan Chapman on 14/06/99 11:21:13 Please respond to peel@onelist.com Sent by: Dan Chapman To: peel@onelist.com cc: (Les Miller/GB/3Com) Subject: Re: [peel] Sonicsubjunkies From: Dan Chapman Morning all. If anyone is interested the album molotov lounge is being released on vinyl strictly limited edition though. For more details go to the Iris-Light web site:- http://www.irislight.demon.co.uk Laters Dan _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Where do some of the Internet's largest email lists reside? http://www.onelist.com At ONElist - the most scalable and reliable service on the Internet. From dan_jc@... Mon Jun 14 14:46:36 1999 From: dan_jc@... (Dan Chapman) Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 05:46:36 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Sonicsubjunkies Message-ID: <76369.80.326.959309995@...> Well Les they have not done a session yet I don't think I stand correceted if they have, but they are recording a new session at the moment for Mr Peel which should be aired later on in the year. Laters Dan _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com From dan_jc@... Tue Jun 15 10:30:15 1999 From: dan_jc@... (Dan Chapman) Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 01:30:15 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Sonicsubjunkies Breezeblock Thang Message-ID: <76369.80.327.959309995@...> Morning all I don't suppose anyone taped the sonicsub's breezeblock sesh? If any one did i'd like a copy Email me at dan_jc@... to arange a tape swap or something. Thanks in advance Laters Dan _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com From smchugh@... Wed Jun 16 12:29:38 1999 From: smchugh@... (Stuart McHugh) Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 11:29:38 +0100 Subject: name that tune Message-ID: <76369.81.328.959309995@...> A friend of mine just asked me about a track he heard on last night's show and I thought I'd ask since it would still be fresh in your minds and we can't completely rely on the playlist being on the web... so, it was around 11.30 (just before the Peelennium?) and he said the band name sounded a bit like 'Gates of Steel'. It was from a split single with another band, and he said the sound was like a mix of the Delgados (i.e. female vocals) and sort of US West Coast pop... I tried to pre-empt him by guessing the Built to Spill split 7" but the female vocal probably vetoes that. Any takers? S From Les_Miller@... Wed Jun 16 12:37:26 1999 From: Les_Miller@... (Les Miller) Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 11:37:26 +0100 Subject: name that tune Message-ID: <76369.81.329.959309995@...> On a related note did anyone catch the name of the artist early on in the show who did a cover of a Freddie Mercury song? Stuart McHugh on 16/06/99 11:29:38 Please respond to peel@onelist.com Sent by: Stuart McHugh To: peel@onelist.com cc: (Les Miller/GB/3Com) Subject: [peel] name that tune From: Stuart McHugh A friend of mine just asked me about a track he heard on last night's show and I thought I'd ask since it would still be fresh in your minds and we can't completely rely on the playlist being on the web... so, it was around 11.30 (just before the Peelennium?) and he said the band name sounded a bit like 'Gates of Steel'. It was from a split single with another band, and he said the sound was like a mix of the Delgados (i.e. female vocals) and sort of US West Coast pop... I tried to pre-empt him by guessing the Built to Spill split 7" but the female vocal probably vetoes that. Any takers? S ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ONElist: the best source for group communications. http://www.onelist.com Join a new list today! From kimhl@... Wed Jun 16 15:12:19 1999 From: kimhl@... (Kim Harrison-Lavoie) Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 13:12:19 +0000 Subject: name that tune Message-ID: <76369.81.330.959309995@...> On Wed, 16 Jun 1999 11:37:26 +0100 Les Miller wrote: > From: "Les Miller" > > > > On a related note did anyone catch the name of the artist > early on in the show who did a cover of a Freddie Mercury > song? > > Norma Waterson. From jmsmall@... Wed Jun 16 23:35:56 1999 From: jmsmall@... (Stig) Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 22:35:56 +0100 Subject: name that tune Message-ID: <76369.81.331.959309995@...> Stuart wrote: > A friend of mine just asked me about a track he heard on last night's show > and I thought I'd ask since it would still be fresh in your minds and we > can't completely rely on the playlist being on the web... > so, it was around 11.30 (just before the Peelennium?) and he said the band > name sounded a bit like 'Gates of Steel'. It was from a split single with > another band, and he said the sound was like a mix of the Delgados (i.e. > female vocals) and sort of US West Coast pop... I tried to pre-empt him by > guessing the Built to Spill split 7" but the female vocal probably vetoes > that. > Any takers? >From the website: Mates of State "leave me at the tree" on Omnibus. I remember thinking how wonderful this was at the time too. No idea if/when it's available and in what form. Tiggiwinkie -- jmsmall@... From keith@... Thu Jun 17 00:14:30 1999 From: keith@... (Keith Hawley) Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 23:14:30 +0100 Subject: it's a bloody long way to tipperary Message-ID: <76369.81.332.959309995@...> OK - maybe i wasn't paying full attention... but - during the second tune of the Peelenium, did that bloke shout "Wank!", just after the bit about doing "some exercise in the bathroom"???????? that would have been quite shocking at the time, i imagine... or (more likely) did i mishear? ......i've decided i'm not going to start taping it until mid/late sixties...... ---------------------------------------- -- keith@... -- ---------------------------------------- From m00zfb02@... Thu Jun 17 02:19:23 1999 From: m00zfb02@... (r) Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 00:19:23 +0000 Subject: it's a bloody long way to tipperary Message-ID: <76369.81.333.959309995@...> > but - > during the second tune of the Peelenium, did that bloke shout "Wank!", just > after the bit about doing "some exercise in the bathroom"???????? i thought that too....but it was on the car stereo and a 80 odd yr old recording....Tim thought he said "swank" but then he's the drummer in Prolapse so you can't trust HIS ears can you? Didn't "wank" originate from Shakespeare anyway? ========================================= robfleay@... http://www.aas.mcmail.com ========================================= From StuartM@... Thu Jun 17 10:26:20 1999 From: StuartM@... (Stuart Mackie) Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 09:26:20 +0100 Subject: Subway Sect Message-ID: <76369.81.334.959309995@...> Dear all I know this is a long shot and won't mean a lot to most of you, but does anyone have any rare or unreleased recordings by Subway Sect? If you do, please get in touch as I'd be very keen in sorting out some sort of exchange. many thanks Stuart Mackie From smchugh@... Thu Jun 17 10:47:26 1999 From: smchugh@... (Stuart McHugh) Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 09:47:26 +0100 Subject: Subway Sect Message-ID: <76369.81.335.959309995@...> >I know this is a long shot and won't mean a lot to most of you, but does >anyone have any rare or unreleased recordings by Subway Sect? If you do, >please get in touch as I'd be very keen in sorting out >some sort of exchange. Motion records (http://www.motionrecords.com) are doing a Subway Sect/Vic Godard compilation which will have all the rare stuff on it I'm sure. Vic is apparently working as a postman currently, but Motion along with Creeping Bent are doing their level best to revive his career - he has recorded and written with Adventures in Stereo and the Secret Goldfish (a new version of "Nobody's Scared" is on Bentism), and the Leopards have been his backing band at his recent shows. Cheers Stuart From Stephen_J._Wood@... Fri Jun 18 20:33:48 1999 From: Stephen_J._Wood@... (Stephen_J._Wood@...) Date: 18 Jun 1999 18:33:48 GMT Subject: Re Vic Godard Message-ID: <76369.82.336.959309995@...> >>the Leopards have beenhis backing band at his recent shows.<< Saw him earlier this year at Bowlie Fest - he was great. I think his backing band was The Bitter Springs, whose LP Peel was playing about a year ago. Peelie was asked to DJ at Bowlie, but grumpily refused when he was given a late slot on Sunday night. I think it was his loss. In the mid '80s Rough Trade put out a compilation: "A Retrospective 1977 - 1981" This LP is an essential buy! Not sure if you can still get it, though! Also of interest is the novel version of "Ambition" by the early Mary Chain (Sounds to me like you can't move in Scotland for Vic Godard fans!) Cheers, Rocker, rocker@... From dodgefromgrange@... Sat Jun 19 14:35:22 1999 From: dodgefromgrange@... (Kevin Culhane) Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 13:35:22 +0100 Subject: (no subject) Message-ID: <76369.83.337.959309995@...> I've moved from Cork to Dulbin recently and can no longer listen to the wonderful Peel show but I think I shall stay subscribed to this list anyway. Indeed my sister told me that knowing I would be seeing a Darren Haymen of Hefner solo gig she taped last thursdays show. She decided to E-mail mister Peel and with 1/2 hour to go in the show the tape ran out and her E-mail had not been noticed. Being an optimist however she decided to tape the last Half hour in case her E-mail was read out but the Tape machine swallowed the tape. This has never happened on that particular tape machine and minutes later as she was still trying to release the tape from the clutchs of the tape heads the last Hefner tune was played for her and her brother(me). We are very proud to have joined the likes of Stig and Maureen who were apparently also had a song played for them in the same episode. I must say I really enjoyed the fisty-cuffs entered into over the Peelenium. The wonderful waffle of some of our listees was a sight to behold indeed. For the record I'd agree with the person who said the most happening music at the start of the century would indeed have been clasical. If this list existed 80 or 90 years ago I would think we'd all be discussing just how bitchin' the latest avant-garde clasical creation of some Jimbob. This sort of thing would of been a live thing as apposed to a record thing me thinks although it is very easy for us to sit here in 1999 and pretend we know exactly what life was like at the start of the century. Indeed lots of us would probalbly of had no interest in music. Kevin _____________________________________ Get your free E-mail at http://www.ireland.com From Stephen_J._Wood@... Sun Jun 20 16:33:24 1999 From: Stephen_J._Wood@... (Stephen_J._Wood@...) Date: 20 Jun 1999 14:33:24 GMT Subject: ReCalexico Session Message-ID: <76369.84.338.959309995@...> Hi, all! Was that Calexico session not magnificent? Morricone meets The Dirty Three! Does anyone know if they have any releases? Cheers, Rocker, rocker@... From Les_Miller@... Mon Jun 21 17:06:32 1999 From: Les_Miller@... (Les Miller) Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 16:06:32 +0100 Subject: For Sale Message-ID: <76369.85.339.959309995@...> Following on from the REM Peel session .... I have a spare ticket for REM at Earls Court on Wednesday (ticket price 22.50 GBP). Contact me off-list if interested. From troche@... Thu Jun 24 05:07:18 1999 From: troche@... (Tom Roche) Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 23:07:18 -0400 Subject: Transistor Blast Message-ID: <76369.86.340.959309995@...> PeelList: I've yet to see this mentioned, but has anyone given a careful listen to the recent XTC 4-box Transistor Blast? 2 CDs are BBC sessions from 77-89 , other 2 are concert recordings. It has the usual extensive track credits yet CD 1 starts with a sort of uncredited track runnig 1:01, no songwriter or studio info, just called "Opening Speech." And what this turns out to be is this funny, phoney "John Peel" welcome to the circa-79 evenings program... There's even a phoney combo in the background doing a just-short-of-copyright-problems Grinderswitch / "Pickin' The Blues" as this guy who says he is Juhn Peel (and he is not) intros all these great made-up bands until getting to "new up and coming beatnik group" XTC. A classic. someone should post the track as a file or something. tom atlanta From smchugh@... Thu Jun 24 17:12:58 1999 From: smchugh@... (Stuart McHugh) Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 16:12:58 +0100 Subject: Transistor Blast Message-ID: <76369.87.341.959309995@...> >And what this turns out to be is this funny, phoney "John Peel" welcome to >the circa-79 evenings > program... There's even a phoney combo in the background doing a >just-short-of-copyright-problems >Grinderswitch / "Pickin' The Blues" as >this guy who says he is Juhn Peel (and he is not) intros all these >great >made-up bands until getting to "new up and coming beatnik group" XTC. Reminds me of the Rezillos b-side to the second version of "Can't Stand My Baby" where a fake live version of "Good Sculptures" is introduced by someone purporting to be from Radio One's In Concert series. The fact that he calls himself "Miles O'Toole" (geddit, missus?) is the only real giveaway. Stuart